Author Topic: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?  (Read 15620 times)

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« on: April 04, 2010, 07:09:33 AM »
I typed this excerpt from the book so the typos are mine.

The Origin of "Allah' and How the Name was Developed from the god of the Moon in Arabia, as it is Attested in Various Arabian Inscriptions.

We know that the term "Allah," as the god of the moon, was derived from the Thamud god of the moon. His name was Hilal, or Hlal, which means "crescent." Later, the name "Hilal" became Hilah, as we see in many inscriptions which were found in Arabia. In the Thamud inscriptions he is found as H-ilah, Ha-ilah and H-alah. We see the same development for "Hilah," the moon deity in Yemen, where Almaqah is called "Halal,' or "Hilal, the Crescent." 15

Safaitic tribes were nomads wandering in many parts of Arabia, especially in the north. The god of the moon was found in their inscriptions as "H-lah." in the Safaitic inscriptions, the letter "H" pronounced as "Ha" is the definite article, "the." It corresponds to the Arabic, "Al."16 This led the Arabians to call him "Al-lah."

The big Star Athtar - Venus - Replaces the Moon for the Title of "Allah"

From the Thamudic inscriptions, we know that Venus worship endeavored to overshadow the worship of other deities of Arabia, willing to impose itself as the monotheistic worship of northern Arabia. The worshippers of "the big star' even underestimated the worship of the other members of the Star Family, such as the worship of the wife of the head, Ellat, which represented the sun, or the worship of the moon itself. Over time, Venus stole the title of "Allah" from the moon. Both the moon and the sun became subjects to Allah, the biggest star. We encounter this concept in the Qur'an, where it says:

He subjected the sun and the moon till they say Allah. (Sura 29:61)

This was because competition grew between the different members of the Star Family. The worshippers of Allah, the biggest star, considered other deities of the Star Family as subordinate to Allah, and maintained that he was the most important in the Star Family. They taught that the other stars became servants to Allah and worshipped him before his throne. The followers of Allah, the head of Arabian Star Family Worship, professed and fought against the followers and worshippers of the other members of the Star Family. This concept of the supremacy of the head of the Star Family over the rest of the members of the family is encountered very clearly in the Qur'an. In the Sura 36;38, we read, "the sun goes to an abiding place." Mohammed then explained this verse in his Hadith saying;

The sun goes to the throne of Allah where it worships the moon.

There are many Hadith of Mohammed in which he claimed that the setting sun goes to the throne of Allah. We quote a Hadith reported in Bukhari, the authoritative book containing the most-confirmed Hadith of Mohammed:

From Abi al-Thur. 'I asked the prophet, peace upon him from Allah, about the verse of Allah in the Qur'an which states that 'the sun goes to an abiding place,' the prophet answered; 'the sun's abiding place is under the throne.'17

Another hadith also reported in Bukhari:

I was with the prophet in the mosque when the sun was setting. he asked me: "Do you know where the sun goes after the sunset?" I answered: "Allah and his prophet better know." The prophet said: "The sun goes under the throne in order to worship, this is the interpretation of Allah's saying 'the sun goes to an abiding place'".18

Al-Tabari also reported a Hadith of Mohammed, in which he describes the sun and the moon going to the throne of Allah to worship.19

.........................

Arabian Monotheism, Which is Based on the Star Venus-Athtar, is the Root of Mohammed's Monotheism

In later times, Athtar, which was the planet Venus, and called the son of the moon, was venerated by the Yemeni tribes. Athtar's worship spread to the north and replaced the moon as Allah. Athtar became the chief deity for monotheism in Arabia. his worshippers rejected the other gods who were worshipped in Arabia and insisted that Athtar, who became Allah, must be worshipped alone. This worship was at the root of Mohammed's monotheistic ideas.

The Qur'an copied the attributes given to Athtar and attributed them to Allah. in Yemeni inscriptions, we find Athtar Khaham, which corresponds in the Arabic of the Qur'an to 'al-Khadir" which means 'the potent," a term used to refer to Allah. We also find in the inscriptions attributed to Athtar the title: 'Athtar al-kaher," which means "Athtar the conqueror,' which we find also attributed to Allah in the Qur'an. We also find another term, 'Athtar Yaglin' which is translated in the Qur'an as "al-montakim," which means "the revenger" or "revengeful.' Still another term referring to Athtar was "Athtar Samum" corresponding to the Arabic of the Qur'an as 'Samie', or 'hearer.' All these titles were attributed to Allah in the Qur'an.31

We see, also, that Attar, in some Thamudic inscriptions, is given the title of 'Rami,' which, in the Arabic language of Mecca and the Qur'an, means 'Akbar,' translated 'the biggest.' This is the same title given to Allah in the Qur'an. The intention of the worshippers of Venus was to say that the Venus deity star was the biggest of all stars. Both Allah in the Qur'an, and Athtar in the Thamudic inscriptions are called 'Rahim,' which means merciful.32 in the inscriptions from the area of Teima, there is a mention of a star called 'Lame'h,' which means 'bright." This is most likely a reference to Venus, which is given in the inscriptions of the title of 'Rahim,'33

The Qur'an has copied many attributes of Arabian gods and given them to Allah. For example, the Thamud gods are described with the inscription;

he was not conceived nor generated nor born. 34

This expression often was used in the Jahiliyah period; in fact, Kes Bin Saideh mentioned it in his sayings.35 Mohammed used to listen to Kes Bin Saideh when he was young. The same idea was copied in the Qur'an and used about Allah, such as Surah al-khlas 112;3, 'he begetteth not, nor is he begotten." This became a verse in the Qur'an.

............

Connections of Mecca with Athtar-Venus's worship, and with other Kaabahs that were built for the same kind of pagan worship.

The Athtar-Venus worship was in places like the Kaabah of mecca.39 Al-Masudi, another islamic historian, says that the Kaabah of Mecca is furnished in the same style as a Kaabah in Yemen, which is dedicated to the worship of Venus.40 This helps us see that the Kabbah in Mecca relates to the same worship of Venus (and others) in the Star Family.

Al-Masudi also reveals that, for each region in Arabia, there was a special star which was considered the main deity venerated by the inhabitants of the region. he goes on to say that Venus was the star of Mecca, Tathrib and Yemen.41

Athtar - Venus became Allah, who appears at mecca in the third pert of each night. Mohammed shared the same concepts of this star deity.

No wonder Venus snatched the title "Allah" from the moon. later, the same Athtar-Venus was called "Allah" in Mecca and in other parts of northern Arabia. Allah became a great and high star which descended every third part of the night to appear to his worshippers. We can see this from many authors who wrote about the life of Mohammed, and who wrote about the life and creeds of Jahiliyah, the period before Islam. Among the authors was Ali Bin Burnan al-Din al-Halabi, known as the author of Halabieh. he wrote that Allah descends to the heaven of this world when it is the last part of the night.42 It is clear that, by the word "Allah," they meant the morning star which they saw in the third portion of each night.

..............

The Hadith contains Mohammed's words, and is considered by Muslims as inspired. in the book of Sahih al-Bukhari, the book which contains the authoritative hadith of Mohammed, we find the words of Mohammed;

Allah, our lord, his name is blessed and high, descends to the heaven of this world every night when it remains in the last third of the night.43

.................


Islam is a form of the Arabian religion of the Star Family Worship of Mohammed's time. The veil that tries to hide this reality falls when we study the roots of the Islamic religion. The face of the old Arabian religion is easily recognized and identified.

.......................


Much more in the book "Islam: In Light of History" by Dr. Rafat Amari
http://religionresearchinstitute.org/

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: Who Was Allah in the Worship of Arabia?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2010, 10:45:14 AM »
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1133.0


The Yemeni tribe of Khuzaa'h built the city of Mecca in the 4th century A.D.

Yemeni pagan religious worship has left its fingerprints all over the temple, showing that Abraham and Ishmael could not have built it.

We will discuss why the marks of Yemeni worship characterized the temple of Mecca. The sayings and customs of Mohammed are called Hadith. "Sahih Muslim" and "Sahih Buchari" are considered the main authoritative books which contain the words or Hadith of Mohammed. In those books, we read about Mohammed's custom  to embrace and kiss two stones, "the Yemenite Rukun" and "the Black Stone".  Ibn Abbas the cousin of Mohammed and the reporter of his authoritative Hadith, says that Mohammed customarily embraced the two Yemeni Rukuns. By "Yemeni Rukuns," he meant the Black Stone and the other stone, also called Rukun.[ix][9] From this we know that Kaabeh had two main elements, also called Rukuns, which were considered sacred. Those were the stones around which the Kaabeh was built. These were the true elements revered by the inhabitants of Mecca and by Mohammed.  

    It seems that the Black Stone was brought from Yemen at the time of Abdel Mutaleb, the grandfather of Mohammed. Islamic tradition claimed it was hidden with the spring of Zamzam for centuries prior to Mohammed.  I demonstrated previously that such a claim could not be true. The fact is that Mohammed and Islamic tradition endeavor to connect the pagan Yemeni worship of the ancestors of Mohammed, which transferred from Yemen to the Temple of Mecca, with Ishmael and Abraham, even though there are historical evidences that point to the contrary. We will look at some of them.

    First, the confirmed date of the construction of the city of Mecca is sometime after the 4th century A.D.  Abu Karb Asa'd was the first to consecrate the Kaabah, which reveals that he was the builder of the Kaabah. He did this during his reign in Yemen, which was between 410 and 435 A.D. The two Rukuns, or stones, which were the main elements of worship in the temple, were of Yemeni origin. The date on which the Black Stone first appeared in Mecca was at the time of Mohammed's grandfather, sometime between 495 and 520 A.D. Though Islamic tradition was aware of these facts, people invented unreliable stories to fill the historical gaps. I've already proved such stories are not logical, and are easily refutable.

     An important factor in tracing Yemeni responsibility for constructing the Temple at Mecca, and in establishing the true date of construction for such Temple, is found in the Himyarite kingdom of Yemen. Abu Karb Asa'd, the reigning monarch of Himyarite kingdom, tried to extend his empire over central western Arabia in order to control the spice route from Yemen to North Arabia, and then to the Fertile Crescent. Abu Karb Asa'd, also called Tubb'a, occupied the cities of central western Arabia at the beginning of the 5th century A.D. Among those cities were Mecca and Yathrib, also called al-Medina. The occupier's strategy was to bind these cities to his kingdom by reinforcing the Yemeni religious system which the inhabitants of Mecca and Yathrib were already embracing. The inhabitants of Mecca had emigrated from Yemen, so they were of Yemeni origin.  Yathrib was formed by two Yemeni tribes, Oas and Khazraj. They, too, emigrated to Yathrib after the dam at Yemen was damaged around 150 A.D. These tribes were living with two Jewish tribes, Beni Kharithah and Beni Nathir, which were already established. Abu Karb Asa'd was of Yemeni origin. He built the Kaabeh at Mecca to reinforce his rule over the city, and to show favor to the citizens of Mecca who were without a temple of worship. They, like him, shared the same pagan beliefs.

Tubb'a's ideas of Jewish and Yemeni pagan myths and their influence on the Arabians of central western Arabia, and consequently on Mohammed.

Tubb'a also tried to build bridges with the Jewish community in Yathrib. He learned their religious thoughts and rites. He learned the Jewish myths, such as the legend of the hoopoe bird  that announced the kingdom of Saba to Solomon. This myth came from the Jewish mythological book called the Second Targum of Esther. Mohammed incorporated the same myth into the Qur'an.

     To accomplish his ends, Tubb'a brought two Jewish rabbis to Yemen.[10]  They added to his knowledge by teaching him many Judaic religious rites and myths, enabling him to mix various items in his own Yemeni pagan background with Jewish mythology and religious tradition. For example, he combined Arabian star worship with Jewish myths.  With mixed knowledge like this, he thought he could control the regions in central western Arabia, where people of Jewish and Arabian origin lived. He then claimed himself to be a prophet, expounding many thoughts which the Yemeni people considered indisputable about the sun, the earth and the cosmos. At Mecca, in an attempt to convince his listeners that he was a prophet, he taught that the sun sets in a spring of black mud.[xi][11] This myth, too, was incorporated by Mohammed in the Qu'ran.

    After his death, Tubb'a's claim left an impression on many groups, even on groups that lived until the time of Mohammed. Mohammed considered him as a Muslim and almost as a prophet.[xii][12]  There have been myths about Tubb'a among the Arabians. Al-Taberi attributed victories to him in China and Tibet. This is unhistorical, but it shows how great an impact Tubb'a left on the Arabians at the time of Mohammed,  to the point that many considered him to be a prophet.[xiii][13]

The Kaabah of Mecca was built for the Arabian Star worship and it shares all the characteristic of the Kaabahs that were built for their worship.

The fact that the temple at Mecca was built as a Kaabah for Arabian star worship is shown in many ways. First, it was built in the same architectural style as other Kaabahs in Arabia. They were all temples for the same Arabian Family Star religion, in which Allah is considered the head and Ellat is his wife. All the Kaabahs had a  Black Stone as the most revered element. It represented the star deity in Arabia. Many of the black stones were meteorites which the Arabs saw descending to earth. They thought the meteorites they were envoys from the moon, which was considered to be Allah himself. This is before that title was given to Venus, who replaced the moon as head of the star family.

    Another thing which shows that the Kaabah of Mecca  was built as a temple for Arabian star worship is that the Kaabah of Mecca reflects members of the star family in many of its elements. The main door of the Kaabah was called  "the door of worshippers of the sun,"[xiv][14] the wife of Allah.

Mohammed confirmed that the origin of the Kaabah's faith was Yemeni.

The role of Yemeni religious paganism in building the temple at Mecca, and its religious nature, cannot be hidden. Even Mohammed recognized the origin of the religious system of Mecca as Yemeni. Mohammed uttered many Hadiths about the Yemeni origin of the Kaabah faith.  Such teachings are reported in the authoritative Hadith, the book of al-Bukhari, in which Mohammed says: "the faith is Yemeni and the wisdom is Yemeni." In another Hadith, he says: "the doctrine and jurisprudence is Yemeni."[xv][15] Therefore, not just the Rukuns, the sacred stones in the Kaabah, were from Yemen, but also religious laws, doctrine and faith are Yemeni. It is undeniable proof that the temple of Mecca was constructed by a Yemeni leader according to a Yemeni pagan style and specification. He established Yemeni religiosity at Mecca, and it was known in other parts of Arabia. How, then, could Abraham have built the Kaabeh, if what we have learned about its construction is true? How did the Black Stone come from heaven, and how did Abraham sacrifice on it, and build the Kaabah around it, if the stone was not in Mecca before the 5th century A.D.?    How could Mohammed's teaching come from  Allah through the angel Gabriel and still be of Yemeni origin?

    The important Egyptian scholar, Tah Hussein, has criticized Islamic tradition for linking the construction of Mecca's temple to Abraham and Ishmael.[xvi][16]  Tah said :

The case for this episode is very obvious because it is of recent date and came into vogue just before the rise of Islam. Islam exploited it for religious reasons."[xvii][17]

If Muslims search diligently in history, like this great Egyptian scholar did, they will reach the same conclusion.

Establishing the Date the Tribe of Khuzaa'h Built Mecca

Many historical elements help us determine the true date Mecca was built.  One major factor is the damage which occurred to the dam of Ma'rib in Yemen around the year 150 A.D. It caused the emigration of many families and tribes from Yemen to the north. One of these families was the family of Amru bin Amer, a Yemeni individual whose progeny fostered many tribes. Among them was Khuzaa'h, which settled in central western Arabia.  Later, they built the city of Mecca.

    Other tribes which came from  Amru bin Amer were Oas and Khazraj. They settled in Yathrib, also called al-Medina, where the Jewish tribes of Beni Kharithah and Beni Nathir were already located.

    From the writings of Tabari, the famous Arabic historian, we understand that this happened at approximately the same time the Lakhmids moved from Yemen to Mesopotamia. It is also the same time Amru bin Amer, the father of Khuzaa'h, moved from Yemen.[xviii][18] The Lakhmids came from Yemen in the 2nd  century A.D. They lived in a region of Mesopotamia later known to be the city of Hira. Later the Persians used them to protect Persian borders with the Byzantine Empire, which was dominating Syria. The first Lakhmid king was Amr I bin Adi, who ruled from 265-295 A.D.[xix][19] The serious collapse of the dam of Ma'rib precipitated the emigration of tribes such as Ghassan, which settled in the Byzantine border; Shammar which inhabited the Syrian Desert; and other tribes which emigrated to the north of Arabia and the Fertile Crescent.[xx][20]  Some of these tribes were related to each other because they were progeny of Amru bin Amer.[xxi][21] Other tribes who came out of Yemen at the time the dam collapsed were Oas and Khazraj. They went to live in al-Medina. Ozd al-Sarat went to al-Sarat, a location near Orfeh, which is near where Mecca was built. The tribe of Khuzaa'h inhabited a place called Mur, also called Mur al-Thahran,[xxii][22] another place near where Mecca was built.[xxiii][23]

http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1133.0

UmraoJaan

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2010, 10:22:40 PM »
Terrible amount of mis-information on this site.

Where are all the members posts?

I hate to have to resort to a YouTube video but I'm way to tired to explain the origins of Language and the actual word "ALLAH".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCKTdsDNNAs

This is the most basic explanation and its not even by a Muslim.

Furthermore Jesus spoke Aramaic and Allah is GOD in Aramaic. Then and now. More specifically we pronounce it Illah or elahi.

Anyways no doubt they would call their moon god Allah, Sikhs today call their GOD Allah but they are not Muslims.

Allah translates THE GOD.

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2010, 07:33:26 AM »
Terrible amount of mis-information on this site.

Where are all the members posts?

All the topics that were ever entered in this site by members, or replies of members, are still here (though I did eventually remove a few that were moved to the spam section and never claimed by the "author"). As you can see, we don't go much easier on unsound portions of doctrines within the body of Christ (mostly stemming from interpretations of the figurative language of dreams and visions in prophecy which are widely open to interpretation), than we do Islam, yet folks don't seem to want to come and defend some of those unsound portions of their doctrines, any more than Muslims do.

I hate to have to resort to a YouTube video but I'm way to tired to explain the origins of Language and the actual word "ALLAH".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCKTdsDNNAs

This is the most basic explanation and its not even by a Muslim.

I'm well familiar with the video, and there is good reason why my comments are banned from it as detailed in the end of this reply. You may not get too far with some Yemeni schoolboy.
The OP of this thread was written by a man (first language Arabic) who studied this subject 8-9 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 20 years. What he is sharing is the history of Arabia and the pagan roots of Mohammed's religion.

Furthermore Jesus spoke Aramaic and Allah is GOD in Aramaic.

Suggesting that Jesus addressed the Greek speaking masses in Aramaic would be tantamount to a U.S. businessman addressing a U.S. business conference in Yiddish.

Then and now. More specifically we pronounce it Illah or elahi.

Anyways no doubt they would call their moon god Allah, Sikhs today call their GOD Allah but they are not Muslims.

Allah translates THE GOD.

Sadly, the name "Allah" does not mean "I AM" in any language in history.
God told us what His name is.

Exd 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

While He is called by other descriptive titles, He only has ONE NAME - YHWH - Yahweh - translated to English "I AM".

resistingrexmundi

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 678
    • View Profile
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2010, 10:02:08 AM »
Quote
Furthermore Jesus spoke Aramaic and Allah is GOD in Aramaic. Then and now. More specifically we pronounce it Illah or elahi.

First of all much of first century aramaic is lost to antiquity. When using it for the film Passion of the Christ, Mel Gibson had to have his linguist blend modern arabic and aramaic to satisfactorily flesh out the dialouge. Modern aramaic is not the same as it was 2000 years ago. English isn't even the same after a few hundred years. If you read Beowulf in "Old English" it is closer to German than English. How much change do you suppose occured in 2000 years in the cultural epicenter of the world? Besides given the fact that Jesus spent part of His life in Egypt as a child it is likely He spoke Greek since it was the universal language of most of the known world. Much more to the point He preached to masses gathered at the temple on feast days who were changing money. The significance of that is these Jews did not live in Judea and so had foriegn money and most likely spoke GREEK.

And you are confusing a word with a name. Muslims use Allah as a proper name not just a word for God. Just as in english we say God. However God is what He is not who He is. It would be as if I referred to you simply as person instead of UmraoJaan. Pre-Islamics worshipped a deity named "Allah" and Muhammad simply carried on this tradition to help ease conversion to his own homemade religion. He isn't alone though. Constantine used the same tactics 200 years before him by using pagan holidays and traditions to spread his own form of Christianity rather than strict biblical Christianity. The enemy is nothing if not consistent.
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2010, 07:49:07 AM »
And you are confusing a word with a name. Muslims use Allah as a proper name not just a word for God.

As confirmed by the first pillar of Islam. "There is no Ilah but Allah"

But the poster did say it meant The God. This is consistent with the OP and the eventual monotheism of Arabian star worship being narrowed down to one god - "the big Star Athtar - Venus"

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2010, 05:22:38 PM »
Besides given the fact that Jesus spent part of His life in Egypt as a child it is likely He spoke Greek since it was the universal language of most of the known world. Much more to the point He preached to masses gathered at the temple on feast days who were changing money. The significance of that is these Jews did not live in Judea and so had foriegn money and most likely spoke GREEK.

Not to mention that if all they spoke was Hebrew, Jesus would have addressed them in their own tongue. After all, it isn't like Jesus would have been limited by any language. Jesus can give sight to the blind and raise the dead but can't talk in another language?! Also there is some evidence that suggests that diverse tongues may also be manifest in the hearing of the listeners, rather than the tongue of the speaker, in a diverse crowd. Certainly not conclusive but consider...

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.   5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.   6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.   7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, "Look, are not all these who speak Galileans?   8 "And how [is it that] we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?   9 "Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,   10 "Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,   11 "Cretans and Arabs -- we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God."   12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, "Whatever could this mean?"

Phill

  • ecclesia
  • Newbie
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2010, 09:43:07 PM »

Just to add a bit to this thread. One of the most striking things that hit me when studying Islam and 'Who is Allah" is the fact that the pagans only ever had a problem with Mohammad getting rid of all the 360 odd other idols, except Allah. They never once complained about their cheif diety Allah being removed and replaced with the God of the Jews and Christians. It was probably tough enough for Mohammad to get rid of all the other dieties they worshipped, but imagine the uproar and confusion it would have created by getting a new chief diety all together. The fact is they didnt have a problem because they already knew who Allah was. Nothing would have saved Mohammad from the barbaric Arabians if he had tried to change their chief diety, and he knew it, which is why he kept Allah and added a twist of this and that for flavour. But essentially Allah today is the same pre Islamic Allah as back then.

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2010, 05:18:17 AM »
The two bandit tribes that Mohammed enlisted to attack his own tribe the Quraish were more into Arabian jinn devil - that is demon worship - so they likely complained about their idols of Asaf and Naelah being removed (the priest and priestess of the Arabian jinn devil worship who God supposedly turned to stone for fornicating inside the kaaba) but Mohammed kept their ritual of running between the two hills of Al-Safa and Al-Marwah 7 times, just as the pagans had performed the rite.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1282.0

And still do unto today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyK8_8qeL84

punisher

  • Guest
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2010, 02:44:09 AM »
Allah is also written in Bible, but New Versions omitted the word of Allah (The true creator)

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2010, 06:59:02 AM »
Hi Punisher.

God's name is "I AM" (YHWH - Yahweh).
"Allah" does not mean "I AM" in any language on earth.

Exodus 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1536.0
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1122.0
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=577.0

punisher

  • Guest
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2010, 05:04:58 AM »
Hi Punisher.

God's name is "I AM" (YHWH - Yahweh).
"Allah" does not mean "I AM" in any language on earth.

Exodus 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1536.0
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1122.0
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=577.0

word "Alah" as alternatively spelled from the usual Christian spelling "Elah." My plea to the Christians was this that spell the word as you like, with an "A" or an "E", with a single "L" or double "LL's", but for goodness sake pronounce the word correctly, as we Muslims do. Because even with its proper Anglicised spelling -
A L L A H: "IT IS SO FAR FROM ITS ARABIC ORIGINAL, WHEN PRONOUNCED WITH A THIN ENGLISH CONSONANT AND FEEBLE VOWELS, THAT MANY AN ARAB MUSLIM WOULD FIND IT UNRECOGNIZABLE." Says Rev. Kenneth Cragg, the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem in his book, "The Call of the Minaret," page 36.

As much as the Englishman has the right to dictate to us as to how his language is to be sounded, surely we Muslims have as much right to demand a common courtesy when taking the name of God. We do not wish the word Allah to go into limbo like the "Yahuwa" of the ]ews. More than 6000 times the formula "YAHUWA ELAH," or ya"HUWA ALAH," or "HUWALLAH," (He is Allah!) occur in the Hebrew manuscripts of the Jewish Bible, commonly called the "Old Testament," by the Christians. If this fact is openly acknowledged by the learned men of Christianity and broadcasted as Rev. Scofield had done then the day for Muslims and Christians to worship God together would not be far distant. But the Devil will not have it. Vested interests are involved. Instead of prenouncing the word ALAH correctly, they would rather have the whole word omitted.

QUICK ABROGATION

"Now You See It" - "Now You Don't" is an old, old gimmick in the West. Compare the above and see how cleverly, how deftly the new band of missionaries expunged the word "Alah" from the "Authorised King James Version" of the Scofield translation of the Bible1.

Some Christian asked? "Why Allah?" "Is He another God?" The answer of course is "NO!" There is not another god. The Muslim creed, the Kalima is: "There is no god except Allah!" makes this explicit; every Muslim must utter this unequivocal statement. And the second half of the Kalima: "Muhummed is the Messenger of Allah," excludes even Muhummed (p.b.u.h.) from being associated with Allah in His Divinity. We are made to say, so to say - NOT EVEN MUHUMMED is god, or object of worship. It is Allah, and Allah alone who is the Only Tue God.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 05:17:44 AM by punisher »

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2010, 07:10:29 AM »
As much as the Englishman has the right to dictate to us as to how his language is to be sounded, surely we Muslims have as much right to demand a common courtesy when taking the name of God. We do not wish the word Allah to go into limbo like the "Yahuwa" of the ]ews.

That's plain silly. God's name isn't about the "right" of anybody to change His name to conform to the Arabic moon god Allah's name. However you have every "right" to blaspheme God's name, just as Daniel prophesied you would.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1536.0

I showed you what Yahweh Himself told us his name is. A name so sacred to Jews for the last 3500 years, that some refuse to have it pass from their lips - to even say it.

You show us a bunch of nonsense that pretends that Mohammed's phony reprobate moon god "Allah" has something to do with other than Satan. Are we supposed to be surprised?

Your Hajj and Umrah traditions are the very same that the Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn/demon worshipers practiced that Mohammed lifted them from, and where he also got the name "Allah". The moon (and eventually star) god Allah was the greatest of all their pagan gods.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?board=59.0

You epically failed to show us that Mohammedanism is something other than the 7th 8th century fictional invention, yet you wish to distract yourself with word games, to run and hide from the truth.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1483.0

Why didn't you show us how Mohammed's phony god "Allah" placed Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael in Mecca,  2 thousand years before Mecca was ever established and a thousand kilometers from where they actually lived or traveled, and did it a thousand years before the first caravan route was ever established along the Red Sea?

If you can't provide some history or archaeology that can confirm the Mohammedans 7th and 8th century historical fiction, inspired by one of the most reprobate men in the history of mankind, where does that leave you?
Forever is a very long time, my friend.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1483.0

punisher

  • Guest
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2010, 07:22:03 AM »

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2010, 07:29:38 AM »

punisher

  • Guest
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2010, 07:34:40 AM »
1. Does "Allah" mean "I AM" in Arabic?

2. Was "Allah" the name of a pagan Arabian deity?


What is "I AM" There is no such thing in hebrew, why u don't talk in hebrew? "IM" The Language of Jesus (PBUH) is Hebrew not Your ENGLISH?

The suffix "IM" of the word "ELOHIM" is a plural of respect in Hebrew.

(Remember that in Arabic and Hebrew there are two types of plurals. One of numbers and the other of honour as in Royal proclamations. Since the plural of honour is uncommon in the language of the European, he has confused these plurals to connote a plurality in the "godhead," hence his justification for his Doctrine of the Holy Trinity - the Father, Son and Holy Ghost).

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2010, 07:39:19 AM »
1. Does "Allah" mean "I AM" in Arabic?

2. Was "Allah" the name of a pagan Arabian deity?


What is "I AM" There is no such thing in hebrew, why u don't talk in hebrew? "IM" The Language of Jesus (PBUH) is Hebrew not Your ENGLISH?

Because this is an English speaking forum. YHWH or Yahweh translates to "I AM"

It's ridiculous to even discuss it in terms of pop-Arabic. http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1693.msg6952#msg6952

1. Does "Allah" mean "I AM" in Arabic?

2. Was "Allah" the name of a pagan Arabian deity?

The suffix "IM" of the word "ELOHIM" is a plural of respect in Hebrew.

One descriptive title for God. Made obvious by the fact that it is also applied to other gods or images.

"Elohim.

The most common of the originally appellative names of God is Elohim (), plural in form though commonly construed with a singular verb or adjective. This is, most probably, to be explained as the plural of majesty or excellence, expressing high dignity or greatness: comp. the similar use of plurals of "ba'al" (master) and "adon" (lord). In Ethiopic, Amlak ("lords") is the common name for God. The singular, Eloah (), is comparatively rare, occurring only in poetry and late prose (in Job, 41 times). The same divine name is found in Arabic (ilah) and in Aramaic (elah). The singular is used in six places for heathen deities (II Chron. xxxii. 15; Dan. xi. 37, 38; etc.); and the plural also, a few times, either for gods or images (Ex. ix. 1, xii. 12, xx. 3; etc.) or for one god (Ex. xxxii. 1; Gen. xxxi. 30, 32; etc.). In the great majority of cases both are used as names of the one God of Israel.

The root-meaning of the word is unknown. The most probable theory is that it may be connected with the old Arabic verb "alih" (to be perplexed, afraid; to seek refuge because of fear). Eloah, Elohim, would, therefore, be "He who is the object of fear or reverence," or "He with whom one who is afraid takes refuge" (comp. the name "fear of Isaac" in Gen. xxxi. 42, 53; see also Isa. viii. 13; Ps. lxxvi. 12). The predominance of this name in the later writings, as compared with the more distinctively Hebrew national name Yhwh, may have been due to the broadening idea of God as the transcendent and universal Lord."

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=52&letter=N&search=god#165

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2010, 01:09:34 PM »

punisher

  • Guest
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2010, 06:06:41 AM »

1. Does "Allah" mean "I AM" in Arabic?

2. Was "Allah" the name of a pagan Arabian deity?



One thing that many non-Hebrew speaking Jews and Christians mistake about is the name of GOD Almighty in the Bible.  "Yahweh" in Hebrew means "The LORD" or the "The GOD".  It is not a name.  Let us look at the following quotations from Christian and Jewish resources:

"Judaism teaches that while God's name exists in written form, it is too holy to be pronounced.  The result has been that, over the last 2000 years, the correct pronunciation has been lost."   (Mankind's Search for GOD, p. 225).


Here we clearly see that the pronunciation for the original name for GOD Almighty had been lost, and the Jews have no idea what the exact pronunciation is from their Holy Scriptures and resources.


"About 3,500 years ago, God spoke to Moses, saying: 'Thus shall you speak to the Israelites: The LORD [Hebrew: YHWH], the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you: This shall be My name forever, this My appellation for all eternity.'   (Exodus 3:15; Psalm 135:13)"  (Mankind's Search for GOD, p.225).

"....the four Hebrew consonants YHWH (Yahweh) that in their Latinized form have come to be known over the centuries in English as JEHOVAH."   (Mankind's Search for GOD, p.225).

So the word "YHWH" or "Yahweh" or "Jehovah" is not the ORIGINAL name, but the appellation (title) for the Almighty GOD.  This is perfectly fine, because Jews, Christians and Muslims call on to GOD Almighty as "The LORD" or "The GOD", which means "Yahweh" or "Jehovah" in Hebrew and "Al-Rab" in Arabic.  "Al-Rab" in Arabic and "Yahweh" in Hebrew and the other translations in all other languages are indeed GOD Almighty's title.   But they are NOT His original Name!

Let us look at what Exodus 3:15 and Psalm 135:13 from the NIV Bible say:  "God also said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, `The LORD [Notice that they didn't write Jehovah.  "The LORD" in only a title], the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob--has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation.  (From the NIV Bible, Exodus 3:15)"

"Your name, O LORD, endures forever, your renown, O LORD, through all generations.  (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 135:13)"

So as we clearly see from the above Verses from the NIV Bible, the original name for GOD Almighty is not "Yahweh".  The title "The LORD" is only a title and a nick name (if you will) that we give to GOD Almighty.  But "Yahweh" is definitely NOT THE ORIGINAL NAME for GOD Almighty.

"Allah" on the other hand is a name.  It is the name of GOD Almighty.

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2010, 06:18:33 AM »

1. Does "Allah" mean "I AM" in Arabic?

2. Was "Allah" the name of a pagan Arabian deity?



One thing that many non-Hebrew speaking Jews and Christians mistake about is the name of GOD Almighty in the Bible.  "Yahweh" in Hebrew means "The LORD" or the "The GOD".  It is not a name.  

"Judaism teaches that while God's name exists in written form, it is too holy to be pronounced.  The result has been that, over the last 2000 years, the correct pronunciation has been lost."   (Mankind's Search for GOD, p. 225).

Here we clearly see that the pronunciation for the original name for GOD Almighty had been lost, and the Jews have no idea what the exact pronunciation is from their Holy Scriptures and resources.

You can see the post above immediately above yours from the Hebrew scholars that what you are saying is patently false. And it's just plain silly to pretend that one of the most modern language inventions, is ancient. It's as foolish as trying to find Mohammed in the Bible other than in the verses that warn of false prophets and liars.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1693.msg6952#msg6952

punisher

  • Guest
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2010, 01:18:47 AM »

You can see the post above immediately above yours from the Hebrew scholars that what you are saying is patently false. And it's just plain silly to pretend that one of the most modern language inventions is ancient. It's as foolish as trying to find Mohammed in the Bible other than in the verses that warn of false prophets and liars.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1693.msg6952#msg6952

Please tell the Arab Christian's priests to throw away the Bible in Arabic, use English Bible instead [if the Arabic word "Allah" doesn't mean GOD].


[Qu'ran 1:1 - English translation]


[[Genesis 1:1 - English Bible - King James Version]
"In the beginning God created
the Heaven and the Earth . . . "

[Genesis 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]

"Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu
as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard . . . "
[Genesis 1:1 - Arabic Bible]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[John 3:16 - English Bible - King James Version]
[/size]
"For God so loved the world,
that . . . "
[John 3:16 - Arabic transliteration]
Li-annhu haakadha ahabba
Allahu al-'Aalama hataa badhala . . . "[/size]
[John 3:16 - Arabic Bible]
[Luke 1:30 - English Bible - King James Version]
" . . . Fear not, Mary:
for thou hast found favor with God."
[Luke 1:30 - Arabic transliteration]
" . . . Laa takhaafee, yaa
Maryam, li-annaki qad wajadti ni'amat(an) i'nda Allahi."
[Luke 1:30 - Arabic Bible]
[Luke 3:38 - English Bible - New King James Version]
"the son of Enos, the son
of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."
[Luke 3:38 - Arabic transliteration]
"bini Anoosha, bini Sheeti,
bini Aaadama, abni Allahi."
[Luke 3:38 - Arabic Bible]

The word "Allah" exists in the Book of Genesis:








Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2010, 05:13:41 AM »

You can see the post above immediately above yours from the Hebrew scholars that what you are saying is patently false. And it's just plain silly to pretend that one of the most modern language inventions is ancient. It's as foolish as trying to find Mohammed in the Bible other than in the verses that warn of false prophets and liars.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1693.msg6952#msg6952

Please tell the Arab Christian's priests to throw away the Bible in Arabic, use English Bible instead [if the Arabic word "Allah" doesn't mean GOD].

I am fully confident that in this information age Arab Christians will see the error of their ways and correct the the blasphemy they engage in through their ignorance.
The term "ilah" is Arabic for the term "God" which would be acceptable. The NAME "Allah" will always be blasphemy.

Indeed they may wind up being reformed by others. In Malaysia Christians are being banned from using the name Allah in Christian literature. At least those guys know it isn't the same God.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=894.0

punisher

  • Guest
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2010, 05:25:03 AM »

Indeed they may wind up being reformed by others. In Malaysia Christians are being banned from using the name Allah in Christian literature. At least those guys know it isn't the same God.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=894.0

So can u please tell in what name u will choose for God in Arabic, i think Bible should be in English.

That's what christian have done in different version of Bible, They omit the world Allah from their Book, to hide the facts

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2010, 05:35:53 AM »

Indeed they may wind up being reformed by others. In Malaysia Christians are being banned from using the name Allah in Christian literature. At least those guys know it isn't the same God.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=894.0

So can u please tell in what name u will choose for God in Arabic, .....

In Arabic, like in English, you can use the Hebrew NAME for God "Yahweh".
Otherwise, how do you say "I AM" in Arabic? That would be God's NAME.

..... i think Bible should be in English.

The bible is written in Hebrew and Koine Greek, with a few portions in Syriac.

That's what christian have done in different version of Bible, They omit the world Allah from their Book, to hide the facts.

I may agree that the TERM "God" is used more than it should be.
Look at the article from the Jewish site above.
"Of the names of God in the Old Testament, that which occurs most frequently (6,823 times) is the so-called Tetragrammaton, Yhwh (), the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel."

All of those instances in our English language scriptures should perhaps be using the term YHWH or Yahweh. I have been increasingly convicted by not using the names Yahweh and Yeshua. One of the reasons I haven't changed over, is a concern that some folks might get the impression that I am elitist or academic, and be more reluctant to chat with me. Perhaps I can use them interchangeably rather than overusing the term "God".

Consider, from Craig Winn

"Q:     Why do you refer to God as Yahweh? Who is Yahweh?     

A:    Yahweh is the actual name of God. In Exodus 3:13 when Moses asked, "who should I tell the Israelites is sending me?" God answered him and said, "YHWH"" or "Yahweh," which means "I Am" in Hebrew. Yahweh's name is given nearly 7000 times in the Bible. "God" isn't a name; it's just a word, one derived from the German, "Gott." It can apply to any false or pagan "deity." By not using Yahweh's name and using, instead, the generic word "God," we are contributing to the deception that we all worship the same God and that Allah is just another word for God. In actuality, "ilah," is the Arabic word for God, and Allah is the name of Muhammad's god. Allah is never mentioned once in the Bible.

Likewise, the name "Jesus" was derived from confusion in translating Greek (which has no "Y" or "J"), to Latin (which also has no "J"), and then to Anglo-Saxon, the precursor of English. We therefore prefer to use Christ's Hebrew name of "Yahshua" which means "Yahweh Saves," or "I am Saves," clearly revealing his mission to mankind that is otherwise obscured in our English translations."
http://prophetofdoom.net/Who_is_Yahweh.Islam

Punisher, when I baptized I used both names. "In the name of God the Father, Yahweh, and in the name of the Son Jesus Christ, Yeshua, and in the Holy Spirit"

All the above being said, Yahweh cares about what's in our hearts, and our intents.

Something I learned while searching this post is that there are "sacred name" Bibles.
Like this sacred name KJV. I am not necessarily recommending it, but just found it of interest.
http://www.sacrednamebible.com/

Messenger

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: WHO WAS ALLAH IN THE WORSHIP OF ARABIA?
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2010, 12:12:13 AM »
In conclusion, in the absence of archaeological or historical record, notions of a pre-first century Mecca or Kaaba it would seem, become nothing more than a desert mirage. There is, however, abundant historical record of veneration of meteorites. Indeed there is record of men venerating black rocks in the many Kaabas throughout Arabia.

Perhaps before long Islam will cease to exist, in the mind of any rational person that is exposed to adequate resources, in this information age.

"But in the last days of the voice of the seventh angel the mystery of God should be finished"
                                    Revelation 10-7
I have used a quotation from the Bible here to support the above quotation from
Behold the Beast. The quotation means that the mystery of who God is and who God isn't will become abundantly clear by the time the seventh angel sounds.
Then truly the seventh angel (WAR) will sound for the Beast will be outraged at losing his divine status.

What this means is that the TRUE GOD of the Bible will stand up and be known to all mankind and the other (known as Allah) will suffer the shame of being exposed as a fraud.

This site Behold the Beast has already put in place the beginnings of this exposure.