Daniel 11:36-45

[Peter]

Nearly a third of the Bible is prophecy. So I feel God wanted you to study it more than occasionally. Besides there are practical application to the teachings contained within them. Like the letter to the 7 churches for example.

I did not say I haven't studied extensively all the prophesies of the Bible in the past, for I have.  I just said I spend more time today with the truth of John 10:27, listening to what our Lord wants me to do on earth before He returns.  

I realize we have taken you out of your comfort zone, but surely you can see you have been unable to answer to what we have been asking you about your view, remaining mute on the dangers to the church we have pointed out result from your view, and you haven't brought an argument against it.
We've given you very tangible answers that you haven't attempted to refute but rather ignore, and to support your view, substitute for answers to ours with:
"...I believe we will see things better that we only see now in part."
"I confess I still see only in part, as did Paul."
"....must mean something other than the re-building of a physical temple."

But never admitted to where the temple of God mentioned in 2 Thess is, for example. Your eschatology depends on the answer to that question.
Why not review the thread challenge yourself to answering a few of the questions, whether in here or to yourself?

Let me ask you a question. How long ago did you decide the futurists were wrong about a rebuilt temple? When did you stop holding that view?

[resistingrexmundi]

I put some of my response in this thread John 10:10

http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=415.msg5149#msg5149

Before we go any further I want to let you know that if I offended you it was not my intention. But you seemed to have indicated in your previous post that for 40 years now you have only taken an occasional look at prophecy. But given the events in Isreal in the last 40 years now is a time more important than any that preceded it to take a look at those books and for once leave our doctrinal baggage at the door and just let it say what it says. For example.

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm

Please read that page. Or if that is a little too long.

http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=543.0

That doesn't go into as much detail as the first link but it still conveys what I am trying to point out.

[Peter]

Matthew Henry expressed the same thing you did, only as looking forward to our times

Matthew Henry expressed it:

"VI. That this prophecy of those times, though sealed up now, would be of great use to those that should live then, v. 4. Daniel must now shut up the words and seal the book because the time would be long ere these things would be accomplished: and it was some comfort that the Jewish nation, though, in the infancy of their return from Babylon, while they were few and weak, they met with obstructions in their work, were not persecuted for their religion till a long time after, when they had grown to some strength and maturity. He must seal the book because it would not be understood, and therefore would not be regarded, till the things contained in it were accomplished; but he must keep it safely, as a treasure of great value, laid up for the ages to come, to whom it would be of great service; for many shall then run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Then this hidden treasure shall be opened, and many shall search into it, and dig for the knowledge of it, as for silver.<By consulting this prophecy on this occasion they shall be led to search other scriptures, which shall contribute much to their advancement in useful knowledge; for then shall we know if we follow on to know the Lord, Hos. 6:3. Those that would have their knowledge increased must take pains, must not sit still in slothfulness and bare wishes but run to and fro, must make use of all the means of knowledge and improve all opportunities of getting their mistakes rectified, their doubts resolved, and their acquaintance with the things of God improved, to know more and to know better what they do know. And let us here see reason to hope that, 1. Those things of God which are now dark and obscure will hereafter be made clear, and easy to be understood. Truth is the daughter of time. Scripture prophecies will be expounded by the accomplishment of them; therefore they are given, and for that explication they are reserved. Therefore they are told us before, that, when they do come to pass, we may believe. 2. Those things of God which are despised and neglected, and thrown by as useless, shall be brought into reputation, shall be found to be of great service, and be brought into request; for divine revelation, however slighted for a time, shall be magnified and made honourable, and, above all, in the judgment of the great day, when the books shall be opened, and that book among the rest."

Discussion of FULFILLED prophecy, not speculation about some future someday. Isaac Newton expressed the same.

"This Prophecy is called the Revelation, with respect to the scripture of truth, which Daniel was commanded to shut up and seal, till the time of the end. Daniel sealed it until the time of the end; {Daniel 12:4, 9} and until that time comes, the Lamb is opening the seals:....
All which is as much as to say, that these Prophecies of Daniel and John should not be understood till the time of the end: .... But in the very end, the Prophecy should be so far interpreted as to convince many."
(Part II. Observations Upon the Apocalypse of St. John. Chap 1)

But sadly, the men above would have never guessed the state of the church today, choosing self-imposed blinders through the doctrines of men, with a virtual absence of Berean hearts. The stunning truth of Islam in bible prophecy being overshadowed by the heresy of a future rebuilt temple and a bogeyman. That fulfilled prophecy is replaced by idle speculation about some future someday.

The truth that Berean spirited Henry and Newton knew would surely come, replaced by fables of the silver screen.
And it's not like we weren't warned:

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

[Peter]

On the basis of the plain language of 2 Thess 2:8-9 where Paul says a "lawless one" whose coming is in accord with the activity of satan with all power and signs and wonders will be slain by the appearance of our Lord's 2nd coming.  

The "plain language" of this area of scripture, is one of the few things you expressed anything related to certainty in, but what we find is that your understanding is dependent on a "helper" word that was added to the original Greek by the translators that were perhaps driven by a similar understanding as yours.

8   kai  <2532> {AND}  tote  <5119> {THEN}  apokalufqhsetai  <601> (5701) {WILL BE REVEALED}  o  <3588> {THE}  anomoV  <459> {LAWLESS [one],} 9   ou  <3739> {WHOSE}  estin  <2076> (5748)  h  <3588> {IS}  parousia  <3952> {COMING}  kat  <2596> {ACCORDING TO [THE]}  energeian  <1753>  tou  <3588> {WORKING}  satana  <4567> {OF SATAN}  en  <1722> {IN}  pash  <3956> {EVERY}  dunamei  <1411> {POWER}  kai  <2532> {AND}  shmeioiV  <4592> {SIGNS}  kai  <2532> {AND}  terasin  <5059> {WONDERS}  yeudouV  <5579> {OF FALSEHOOD,}

What we are trying to point out to you John, is that the only support it seems you have offered so far for your view, is your willingness to hold it.

[John 10:10]

Nearly a third of the Bible is prophecy. So I feel God wanted you to study it more than occasionally. Besides there are practical application to the teachings contained within them. Like the letter to the 7 churches for example.

I did not say I haven't studied extensively all the prophesies of the Bible in the past, for I have.  I just said I spend more time today with the truth of John 10:27, listening to what our Lord wants me to do on earth before He returns.  

I realize we have taken you out of your comfort zone, but surely you can see you have been unable to answer to what we have been asking you about your view, remaining mute on the dangers to the church we have pointed out result from your view, and you haven't brought an argument against it.
We've given you very tangible answers that you haven't attempted to refute but rather ignore, and to support your view, substitute for answers to ours with:
"...I believe we will see things better that we only see now in part."
"I confess I still see only in part, as did Paul."
"....must mean something other than the re-building of a physical temple."

But never admitted to where the temple of God mentioned in 2 Thess is, for example. Your eschatology depends on the answer to that question.
Why not review the thread challenge yourself to answering a few of the questions, whether in here or to yourself?

Let me ask you a question. How long ago did you decide the futurists were wrong about a rebuilt temple? When did you stop holding that view?

[Peter]

« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 12:07:58 PM by Peter »	Logged

"Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed." ~ William Blake
Please visit:
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http://brotherpete.com

[Peter]

On the contrary, I'm very comfortable listening to what my Lord is telling me, trusting He will let me know what I need to know if I'm still alive on earth when He returns.

So then the 80 million futurists are not listening to what their "Lord is telling them"? The even greater number of partial preterists are not listening to what the "Lord is telling them"? That resisting and I are not listening to what our "Lord is telling us"?

Did you ever wonder why there are a couple thousand denominations? Alternatively do you believe that the "Lord is telling them" all entirely different things in terms of eschatology, and yet somehow they are all correct?
Make no mistake about entirely different. One view of Revelation after chapter 3 has almost the entirety of the book of Revelation fulfilled by 70 AD, and the other popular view has it not having begun yet.
No surprise that NEITHER view is consistent with the way ALL CHRISTIANS AND JEWS understand that Old Testament prophecy was fulfilled.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=14.0

Since your view is entirely unique, and unsupported thus far, did you ever stop to wonder why scripture says to
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Are you aware that proper exegesis, does not allow you to rearrange the chronological order of scripture, as you did in order to force the Olivet Discourse to support your view? Do you believe the "Lord told you" to do that too?

[Peter]

Unbelievable bro. I am so sorry. I just deleted your post. It was a great post. This is the first time since I have been using the "Peter" ID instead of the regular member "Pete" identity, that I have pushed the "modify" button, rather than the "quote" button.

I removed everything I didn't want to quote and added this.

"I called brother Skolfield yesterday to ask about the translator, (not-so) "helper" word [one], in the Greek. We got cut off early but he did share that he believes 2.7 is a reference to the Holy Spirit, which was poured out on (not in) all flesh, and that it is the Holy Spirit that will be taken out of the way.

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."

Only instead I really did remove everything. That whole great post. I don't suppose you had a copy saved in word or something do you?
I am so, so, sorry.

If you have another copy of the browser open you might find you can copy and paste it from there if it hasn't refreshed.

[resistingrexmundi]

Unbelievable bro. I am so sorry. I just deleted your post. It was a great post. This is the first time since I have been using the "Peter" ID instead of the regular member "Pete" identity, that I have pushed the "modify" button, rather than the "quote" button.

I removed everything I didn't want to quote and added this.

"I called brother Skolfield yesterday to ask about the translator, (not-so) "helper" word [one], in the Greek. We got cut off early but he did share that he believes 2.7 is a reference to the Holy Spirit, which was poured out on (not in) all flesh, and that it is the Holy Spirit that will be taken out of the way.

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."

Only instead I really did remove everything. That whole great post. I don't suppose you had a copy saved in word or something do you?
I am so, so, sorry.

If you have another copy of the browser open you might find you can copy and paste it from there if it hasn't refreshed.

No problem Pete. I still had the post open and hilighted for copying and pasting.

So here it is.

On the contrary, I'm very comfortable listening to what my Lord is telling me, trusting He will let me know what I need to know if I'm still alive on earth when He returns.

I'm sure you did not intend it this way but statements like that imply that others are not listening to the Lord if they disagree with you. If we were discussing verses that are completely closed to interpretation or dealt with core doctrinal issues then it would be different.

Quote from: John 10:10 on May 04, 2010, 09:57:30 AM

	Logged

Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

[Peter]

No problem Pete. I still had the post open and hilighted for copying and pasting.

So here it is.

YEA!!!!!!!!!!!
I know it must have taken you between a half hour and hour to compose it.

[John 10:10]

	Logged

[Peter]

I believe this person spoken about in 2 Thess 2 will be one who is "born/filled with the spirit of Satan."  

I do not believe he will be a Christian by any definition someone may want to give him.

Then how can he "sitteth in the 'temple of God'", when you believe as we, that location is a regenerate individual and the Body of Christ?

Jesus warned us in Matt 13 that "the birds of the air will come and nest in its branches" (vs 32), speaking of the kingdom of heaven during the age of the Gentiles.  I believe this speaks of children of Satan coming to nest in the Church during the Church age.  A true mustard seed can never grow into a tree, but this one does.  I am content to remain and be the true mustard seed within the kingdom of heaven.

Blessings    

[edit add] I didn't spend enough time reading your reply. Sorry.
So then you seem to be pretty well stuck believing your "The" "Antichrist" will have to come out of the Body of Christ.

Did you spend any time in the 2 Thess thread that we've been working on for the last couple of days?
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=415.0

[John 10:10]

I put some of my response in this thread John 10:10

http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=415.msg5149#msg5149

Before we go any further I want to let you know that if I offended you it was not my intention. But you seemed to have indicated in your previous post that for 40 years now you have only taken an occasional look at prophecy. But given the events in Isreal in the last 40 years now is a time more important than any that preceded it to take a look at those books and for once leave our doctrinal baggage at the door and just let it say what it says. For example.

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm

Please read that page. Or if that is a little too long.

http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=543.0

That doesn't go into as much detail as the first link but it still conveys what I am trying to point out.

No offence taken.  Israel is certainly the key to when the final events of the end of the age will take place.  Israel is always in my prayers.  Pray for the peace of Jeruslaem (Psa 122:6) and for Rom 11:25-27 to be fulfilled to Israel and the Jewish people.

Blessings.

[resistingrexmundi]

	Logged

Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

[John 10:10]

I believe this person spoken about in 2 Thess 2 will be one who is "born/filled with the spirit of Satan."  

I do not believe he will be a Christian by any definition someone may want to give him.

Then how can he "sitteth in the 'temple of God'", when you believe as we, that location is a regenerate individual and the Body of Christ?

Jesus warned us in Matt 13 that "the birds of the air will come and nest in its branches" (vs 32), speaking of the kingdom of heaven during the age of the Gentiles.  I believe this speaks of children of Satan coming to nest in the Church during the Church age.  A true mustard seed can never grow into a tree, but this one does.  I am content to remain and be the true mustard seed within the kingdom of heaven.

Blessings    

[edit add] I didn't spend enough time reading your reply. Sorry.
So then you seem to be pretty well stuck believing he will have to come out of the Body of Christ.

Did you spend any time in the 2 Thess thread that we've been working on for the last couple of days?

I believe this person may come out of being falsely planted in the Church, but he certainly will not be a true Christian belonging to The Body of Christ.

I believe true Christians are "born again of the Holy Spirit", and that false Christians and unbelievers can be born again of an unholy spirit, the spirit of Satan, living within the temple of the human heart..

Blessings