Author Topic: RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS  (Read 7167 times)

Peter

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RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS
« on: July 14, 2010, 05:55:28 AM »
http://religionresearchinstitute.org/ramadan/roots.htm

RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS

By Dr. Rafat Amari

Ramadan has Pagan Roots in India and the Middle East

Ramadan, the ninth month of the Islamic calendar and the rigid observance of thirty days of fasting during the daylight hours, has pagan roots developed in India and the Middle East. The observance of fasting to honor the moon, and ending the fast when the moon's crescent appears, was practiced with the rituals of the Eastern worshippers of the moon. Both Ibn al-Nadim and the Shahrastani tell us about  al-Jandrikinieh, an Indian sect which began to fast when the moon disappeared and ended the fast with a great feast when the crescent reappeared[1].

The Sabians, who were pagans in the Middle East, were identified with two groups, the Mandaeans and the Harranians. The Mandaeans lived in Iraq during the 2nd century A.D. As they continue to do today, they worshipped multiple gods, or "light personalities." Their gods were classified under four categories:  "first life,"  "second life," "third life" and "fourth life."  Old gods belong to the "first life" category. They summoned deities who, in turn, created "second life" deities, and so forth.

The other group, considered as Sabians, were the Harranians. They worshipped Sin, the moon, as their main deity, but they also worshipped planets and other deities. The Sabians were in contact with Ahnaf, an Arabian group which Mohammed joined before claiming to be a prophet. Ahnaf sought knowledge by going to Northern Iraq, where there were many communities of Mandaeans. They also went to the city of Harran in the al-Jazirah district in northern Syria on the border between Syria, Iraq and Asia Minor.

In Mecca, the Ahnaf were called Sabians because of the doctrines they embraced. Later, when Mohammed claimed to be a prophet, he was called a Sabian by the inhabitants of Mecca because they saw him performing many Sabian rites which included praying five times a day; performing several movements in prayer that were identical with the Mandaeans and the Harranians; and making ablution, or ceremonial washing, before each prayer. In the Qur'an, Mohammed called the Sabians "people of the book" like the Jews and Christians.

Ramadan was a pagan ceremony practiced by the Sabians, whether they were Harranians or Sabians. From the writings of Abu Zanad, an Arabic writer from Iraq who lived around 747 A.D., we conclude that at least one Mandaean community located in northern Iraq observed Ramadan[ii][2].

Ramadan was Originally an Annual Ritual Performed at the City of Harran. Similarities Between the Ramadan of Harran and the Islamic Ramadan.

Although the fasting of Ramadan was practiced in pre-Islamic times by the pagans of Jahiliyah, it was introduced to Arabia by the Harranians. Harran was a city on the border between Syria and Iraq, very close to Asia Minor which, today, is Turkey. Their main deity was the moon, and in the worship of the moon, they conducted a major fast which lasted thirty days. It began the eighth of March and usually finished the eighth of April. Arabic historians, such as Ibn Hazm, identify this fast with Ramadan.[iii][3]

 Ibn al-Nadim wrote in his book, al-Fahrisit, about various religious sects in the Middle East. He says in the month in which the Harranians fasted for thirty days, they honored the god Sin, which is the moon. Al-Nadim described the feasts they celebrated and the sacrifices they presented to the moon.[iv][4] Another historian, Ibn Abi Zinad also speaks about the Harranians, saying that they fast for thirty days, they look toward Yemen when they fast, and they pray five times a day.[v][5]   We know that Muslims also pray five times a day. Harranian fasting is also similar to that of Ramadan in Islam in the fact that they fast from before the sun rises until the sunset, just as the Muslims do during the days of Ramadan.[vi][6] Still another historian, Ibn al-Juzi,  described the Harranian fasting during this month. He said they concluded their fasting by sacrificing animals and presenting alms to the poor.[vii][7]  We also find these things in Islamic fasting today.

Mythological roots concerning Harran's celebration of the moon explained the disappearance of the moon after it joined with the star cluster, Pleiades, in the constellation of Taurus. It occurred during the third week of March. The people prayed to the moon, pleading for its return to the city of Harran, but the moon refused to return. This is thought to be the explanation for why they fasted during this month. The moon did not promise to return to Harran, but it did promise to return to Deyr Kadi, a sanctuary near one of the gates of Harran. So after this month, the worshippers of Sin, the moon, went to Deyr Kadi to celebrate and to welcome the return of the moon.[viii][8]  According to Ibn al-Nadim, the historian mentioned earlier, the Harranians called the feast al-Feter ??? ?????  , the same name by which the feast of Ramadan is named[ix][9].

 In addition to the feast during Ramadan, the Harranians had five prayers which they repeated day and night. Each had to be preceded by ablutions, which were ceremonial washings.[x][10]  The same system of five prayers each day, preceded by ablutions, was embraced by Mohammed.

The fasting of Ramadan spread from Harran into Arabia. This may have occurred after the occupation of Nabonidus, the Babylonian king, to the north of Arabia, around the year 552 B.C., during his sojourn in the city of Teima. Nabonidus was from the city of Harran. He was a fanatic worshipper of the moon, Sin, and his mother was a priest of Sin. He disagreed with the priests of Babylonia who considered the god, Marduk, as the chief of the gods of Babylonia. Nabonidus was eager to spread the worship of Sin, the moon, as the main deity. So he left his son in charge of Babylonia and went to live in Teima in North Arabia.

In pre-Islamic times, Ramadan became a pagan Arabian ritual and was practiced by the pagan Arabians with the same features and characteristics as the Islamic Ramadan.

Ramadan was known and practiced by the pagan Arabians before Islam. Al-Masudi says that Ramadan received its name because of the warm weather during that month.[xi][11]

The pagan Arabians in the pre-Islamic Jahiliyah period fasted in the same way Muslims fasted, as originally directed by Mohammed. Pagan Arabian fasting included abstinence from food, water, and sexual contact - the same as practiced by Islam. Their fasting also was done in silence. There was to be no talking, not even for a short period of time such as one day, or a longer period of time of a week or more.[xii][12]  The Qur'an points to the same kind of fasting when, in Surah 19, it describes God instructing the Virgin Mary to say that she vowed to fast before God, which also meant she couldn't speak to anyone[xiii][13]. The Arabian practice of keeping silent during the fast noticeably influenced the customs of the Qur'an. We are told that Abu Baker approached a woman among the pagan worshippers in Medina. He found her fasting, included abstinence from speaking.[xiv][14]  Fasting was a serious matter for the Arabians, enforced with laws requiring severe penalties for failing to abstain from talking. Ramadan in Islam is a continuation of this kind of fasting.

Mohammed imposed on his followers many religious rituals from the two tribes of Medina who backed him in subduing the Arabians to Islam. Among such rituals was Ramadan.

It seems that Ramadan was practiced in many cities in North Arabia where Nabonidus, the Harranian king of Babylonia, ruled. One of the cities he occupied was Yathrib, which later became al-Medina. Mohammed imposed Ramadan fasting, as well as the ritual of praying toward Mecca instead of Jerusalem, after he emigrated to al-Medina, whose Arabian tribes used to pray toward Mecca, just as it seems they used to fast during Ramadan.[xv][15]  Mohammed adjusted his ceremonies to fit the religious rituals and customs of Oas and Khazraj, the two tribes from al-Medina who backed Mohammed in his wars against the Arabians. One of their ceremonies was a weekly religious feast each Friday. Mohammed made this day the religious day of Islam.

 

Muslims Can't Gain the Favor of God by Practicing Religious Ceremonies Such as Ramadan.

Ramadan is not true fasting, because the participants still eat their meals during the night. Since the ritual allows them to eat while it is dark, they simply eat a large meal in the late evening and wake up early in the morning for another big meal. In other words, they simply change the time of their meals from daylight to darkness.

The hypocrisy continues during Ramadan in the kind of meals they eat. Rather than simple meals which they have during the year, they arrange for elaborate meals, spending sometimes triple or more money on food during Ramadan than in any other month. In reality, it's not true fasting, but an excuse for eating extra in the month they claim to be fasting.

Fellowship with God is not based upon arduous or deceptive religious practices. Neither is fellowship with God granted through religious practices. A criminal who is required to appear before a court to receive justice doesn't gain the judge's favor by practicing religious rituals. Being religious doesn't annul the criminal act he committed. In the same way, as a sinner, man doesn't obtain the favor of God by doing religious rituals or by fasting.  He can't avoid the justice of God and the condemnation that awaits him because of his sins. A Holy God refuses to have fellowship with sinners, even though they perform many religious practices.

However, God has provided salvation to mankind when He sent His Son in human flesh to die on a cruel cross in order to pay the penalty demanded for sin. The only way for a person to have fellowship with God is to believe in the redemptive work of Christ. In so doing, the repentant sinner finds that his sins will be removed, and the righteousness of Christ will be imputed to him. Then the Spirit of God is given to him so that he can fellowship with God spiritually, and for eternity.

  Religion Research Institute -Home



[1] Ibn Al Nadim, Al-Fahrisit, page 348

[ii][2] Abdel Allah ibn Zakwan Abi al-Zanad. See  Ibn Qutaybah,op.cit.page 204;Cited by Sinasi Gunduz, The Knowledge of Life, Oxford University, 1994, page 25

[iii][3] Ibn Hazm, I, page 34; quoted by Sinasi Gunduz, pages 167-168

[iv][4] Ibn Al-Nadim, Al-Fahrisit, pages 324- 325

[v][5] Quoted by Rushdi Ilia'n, Al Saebiun Harraniyen Wa Mandaeyn, Bagdad, 1976, page 33

[vi][6] Quotation from Arabic historians by M.A. Al Hamed, Saebat Harran Wa Ikhwan Al Safa, Damascus, 1998, page 57

[vii][7] Ibn Al Juzi , Talbis Iblis, prepared by M. Ali, Kher, page 84; Quotation   by M.A. Al Hamed, Saebat Harran Wa Ikhwan Al Safa, Damascus, 1998, page 57

[viii][8] Dodge, B., The Sabians of Harran, page 78

[ix][9] Ibn Al Nadim, al-Fahrisit, page 319

[x][10] Ibn Al Nadim, al-Fahrisit, page 319

[xi][11] Masudi, Muruj Al-Thaheb, 2, page 213

[xii][12] Jawad Ali, al-Mufassal, vi, page 342

[xiii][13] al-Allusi, Ruh' al-Maani 16; page 56 ; Tafsir al-Tabari, 16, page 56

[xiv][14] Qastallani Ahmad ibn Muhammed, Irshad al-Sari, 6: 175; Ibn Hagar, al-Isabah 4:315

[xv][15] Al Masudi, Muruj Al-Thaheb, 2, 295

AnnaMuslim

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Re: RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2010, 11:44:35 AM »
Quote
   
RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS
 on: July 14, 2010, 03:55:28 AM
Quote
http://religionresearchinstitute.org/ramadan/roots.htm

RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS

By Dr. Rafat Amari

Ramadan has Pagan Roots in India and the Middle East

Ramadan, the ninth month of the Islamic calendar and the rigid observance of thirty days of fasting during the daylight hours, has pagan roots developed in India and the Middle East. The observance of fasting to honor the moon, and ending the fast when the moon's crescent appears, was practiced with the rituals of the Eastern worshippers of the moon. Both Ibn al-Nadim and the Shahrastani tell us about  al-Jandrikinieh, an Indian sect which began to fast when the moon disappeared and ended the fast with a great feast when the crescent reappeared[1].

The Sabians, who were pagans in the Middle East, were identified with two groups, the Mandaeans and the Harranians. The Mandaeans lived in Iraq during the 2nd century A.D. As they continue to do today, they worshipped multiple gods, or "light personalities." Their gods were classified under four categories:  "first life,"  "second life," "third life" and "fourth life."  Old gods belong to the "first life" category. They summoned deities who, in turn, created "second life" deities, and so forth
.

HERE IS THE HISTORY OF THE SABEANS without DR RAFAT AMARI PREJUDICE AND OPINIONATED EXPRESSIONS:
DR AMARI WRITES LIKE A HIGH SCHOOL DROPOUT!!!

Sabians practiced initiation through submersion in water, intended to harken to the inundation of the world during the deluge of the time of Noah which cleansed man's sinful nature from the face of the earth. There has been much speculation as to the origins of the religious endonym from this practice. Some have argued that the term S?bi'?n derives from the Syriac root S-b-' , referring to conversion through submersion; the Syriac (and Hebrew) nouns derived from this root refer to proselytes, both "Judaisers" non-converts who followed certain basic rules of Judaism and early Christian converts of non-Jewish origin and practice. These latter were called Theosebeians "God-Fearers", Sebomenoi "Believers", or Phobeomenoi (??????????) "pious ones" in Greek sources. The Greek etymology of sebomai (???????), applied to the proselytes, is in the word eusebian (?????????), meaning a kind of godliness and reverence or worshipfulness. Proselytization has also long been associated with submersion and although the Greek etymology of the Sabian appellation is more than likely the original (there being no record of any similar people prior to the Hellenic era). According to Islamic scholars, the word S?bi'?na (Sabian) is derived from the verb saba'a, which refers to the action of leaving one religion and entering another.[4]

Tabari said: as-S?bi'?n is the plural of S?bi', which means "proselyte" (such as an apostate from Islam) who has left his original religion, or anyone who has left the religion that he used to follow and joins another. The Arabs called such a person S?bi'.


ONE PARRAGRAPH IS ALL THAT IS NEEDED TO EXPOSE A FRAUD LIKE RAFAT AMARI!!!

HE IS BIASED< OPINIONATED< AND SUBJECTIVE IN HIS APPROACH TO SUBJECTS< HARDLY A CANDIDATE FOR THE TRUTH

SABIANS WERE LIKE THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS IN THEIR APPROACH TO THEIR RELIGION WITH AMNY PRACTICES CONFORMING TO JEWISH PRACTICES

Despite substantial and clear documentation about both kinds of Sabians spanning many centuries from sources as diverse as Greek Christian, Arabic Muslim, Arabic and Persian Bah�'�, as well as Jewish sources, the actual nature of the Sabians has remained a matter of some heated debate among Orientalists. Therefore, "Sabian" has been used mistakenly in many literary references for decades and though, the spelling "Sabian" usually refers to one of the People of the Book mentioned in the Qur'an, it has also been used by the Mandaeans as an appellation adopted to appease local Muslim authorities. The variation "Sabean" has been employed in English to distinguish the ancient Harranian group, but the usage is not universal.

DR RAFAT PERHAPS DOES NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ARAB AND A MUSLIM.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 05:30:05 AM by Peter »

Peter

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Re: RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2010, 06:14:08 AM »
Quote
   
RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS
- on: July 14, 2010, 03:55:28 AM -
Quote
http://religionresearchinstitute.org/ramadan/roots.htm

RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS

By Dr. Rafat Amari

Ramadan has Pagan Roots in India and the Middle East

Ramadan, the ninth month of the Islamic calendar and the rigid observance of thirty days of fasting during the daylight hours, has pagan roots developed in India and the Middle East. The observance of fasting to honor the moon, and ending the fast when the moon's crescent appears, was practiced with the rituals of the Eastern worshippers of the moon. Both Ibn al-Nadim and the Shahrastani tell us about  al-Jandrikinieh, an Indian sect which began to fast when the moon disappeared and ended the fast with a great feast when the crescent reappeared[1].

The Sabians, who were pagans in the Middle East, were identified with two groups, the Mandaeans and the Harranians. The Mandaeans lived in Iraq during the 2nd century A.D. As they continue to do today, they worshipped multiple gods, or "light personalities." Their gods were classified under four categories:  "first life,"  "second life," "third life" and "fourth life."  Old gods belong to the "first life" category. They summoned deities who, in turn, created "second life" deities, and so forth
.

HERE IS THE HISTORY OF THE SABEANS without DR RAFAT AMARI PREJUDICE AND OPINIONATED EXPRESSIONS:
DR AMARI WRITES LIKE A HIGH SCHOOL DROPOUT!!!

Sabians practiced initiation through submersion in water,...........

If you read it again you will see the term "initiation", which is a reference to a ritual when someone initially joins their cult. As you can see from the description it is a kind of fake baptism.
This is not a reference to the cult's ritual washing 5 times a day, and praying repetitive prayers of the heathen the way that Muslims also do.

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain  repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Therefore, "Sabian" has been used mistakenly in many literary references for decades and though, the spelling "Sabian" usually refers to one of the People of the Book mentioned in the Qur'an, .......

But what else would someone expect from a 7th century desert dwelling illiterate cultist who suggested that Sabians were "people of the book"?

"S?bi'?n know Allah as the Rabb al-'alihah (lord of gods) and 'ilah al-'alihah (god of gods) and speak to angels in their meditations,[23]  each of whom they believe dwell in different stars....."

Sure, the Scriptures are full of verses on all of the angels of the different stars, aren't they? All you accomplished was to confirm Mohammedan paganism and star worship. Mohammed was into star worship up to his eyeballs most of his life. That's why he borrowed the same rituals that the Arabian pagans invented with the only change being that he removed all of the idols except the one that Muslims still bow toward 5 times a day.

Now look at the stupidity expressed in the bibliography.

#
# ^ Mujahid 'ibn Jarir (d 722 AD) wrote: "The Sabians have no distinctive religion but is somewhere between Judaism and Magianism. "
^ a  b  'Abu Hanifah (d.767 AD) who is the founder of the Hanafite School of Islamic Law wrote: "The Sabians read Zaboor and are between Judaism and Christianity."
The foolishness of Ibn Abbas
'Abd 'Allah 'ibn al-'Abbas (lived about 650 AD) wrote: "The religion of the Sabians is a sect of Christianity."
# ^  'Ibn Abi Nujayh (d749) wrote: "The Sabians were between Judaism and Magianism."
# ^ Suddi (d745 AD) also wrote: "The Sabian religion is between Judaism and Magianism."
# ^ "Awza" (d.773 AD) a representative of the ancient Syrian school of religious studies wrote: "The Sabians are between Judaism and Christianity."
# ^ Malik 'ibn 'Anas (d795) wrote: "The Sabians are between Judaism and Christianity"
# ^ 'Ahmad 'ibn Hanbal (d. 855 AD) the 'Iman of Baghdad wrote: "The Sabians are a sect of Christianity or Judaism."

And the buffoonery of these Muslims goes on and on.
See how it works? Once your so-called scholars like ibn abbas repeat lies often enough, even they begin to believe the lies themselves - let alone the dupes that follow them.
Judaism and Christianity as revealed through the scriptures have nothing to do with the star and planet worship of the Sabaians and the pagan Arabian star worshipers from Yemen whose very same rituals Islam practices unto this day, in the very same place they last performed them.

Now dig this

^  Qatadah 'ibn Di'amah (d736 AD) wrote: "The Sabians worship angels, read Zaboor, pray five ritual prayers."

So there's the smoking gun from your own reference. THE SABIANS PRAYED 5 RITUAL PRAYERS. That's who Mohammed got the pagan Islamic ritual from - NOT from his fanciful riding around on a flying camel at night. Do you believe in flying carpets too?
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1253.0


Now do you understand that anybody, can write anything, for Wikipedia? Do you know that Muslims routinely destroy truth when non-Muslims post it in an article? Did you see that the sources listed in the bibliography were largely not only a bunch of Muslims for reference, but even Q&A blather from Muslim websites?

In my opinion there is no such a thing as an Islamic "scholar", since none have brought forward a single shred of historical or archaeological EVIDENCE that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD. They are stuck trying to pretend a fake world history created in the 7th and 8th century AD by Islamic liars, is real.

....... it has also been used by the Mandaeans as an appellation adopted to appease local Muslim authorities. The variation "Sabean" has been employed in English to distinguish the ancient Harranian group, but the usage is not universal.

DR RAFAT PERHAPS DOES NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ARAB AND A MUSLIM.

AnnaMuslim

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Re: RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2010, 09:49:16 AM »
THANK YOU PETER

YOU HAVE SUCCESSFULLY POINTED TO THE FACT THAT YOU ARE OPINIONATED< DO NOT BELIEVE THE OPINION OF HIGHLY PRAISED SCHOLARS, BUT YOU TAKE THE WORD OF RAFAT AMARI OVER THE RESEARCHERS OF ISLAM WHO I CAN ASSURE HAD NO HIDDEN AGENDA> MANY HAD OPPOSITION AS THE TRUTH ALWAYS WILL!!

DR RAFATS WORK IS HIGHLY BIASED AND A VERY POORLY WRITTEN ACADEMICALLY AND FACTUALLY INACCURATE!!!

HIS MAIN AIM IS TO DISCREDIT AND SLANDER, BUT ACHIEVES THE OPPOSITE

EVERYTHING HE PRESENTS POINTS TO THE FACT THAT PROPHETS CAME BEFORE WITH SCRIPTURE (YOU DENY SCRIPTURE AND CALL THE PRACTICES PAGAN< YET ALL YOUR REFERENCE MATERIAL COMES FROM THE MOST PAGANISTIC SOCIETIES ROME AND GREECE!!!

IF THERE ARE SIMMILARITIES IN WORSHIP THEN OBVIOUSLY A PROPHET PRECEEDED MUHAMMAD< OH YES MUHAMMAD IS THE SEAL OF PROPHETHOOD> AND IF MUHAMMAD CAME TO DIRECT US TO THE TRUTH< THE TRUTH OF ALL THE PROPHETS WOULD BE PREVALENT IN HIS WORSHIP.

1. MUSLIMS ASK FORGIVENESS WITHE PRAYER OF ADAM
2, MUSLIMS DECLARE THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM (THERE IS NO GOD WORTHY OF WORSHIP BUT ALLAH) LANGUAGE OF ABRAHAM IS ARABIC/ ARAMAIC?
3, WE Supplicate LIKE MOSES WHEN IN A COURT AND WE HAVE TO SPEAK AND ACCEPT ALL THE LAWS OF MOSES.
4 WE fear LIKE JONAS WHEN COnFRONTED WITH BEING SWALLOWED BY DARKNESS
5. WE ENJOIN THE PATIENCE OF JOB (AYUB) ALL PRAISE IS DUE TO ALLAH
6. WE PREACH LOVE AND CHARITY LIKE JESUS, did
7. WE PRAY 5 TIMES A DAY AS SHOWN TO US BY MUHAMMAD, not like the Sabians, DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT SALAAH IS? SALAAH IS A CONNECTION< A PROSTRATION< A SEQUENCE OF MOVEMENTS UNIQUE TO MUSLIMS>


YES ALL OUR RITUALS< FARD (DUTY TO ALLAH) AND SUNNAH (TRADITIONS OF THE PROPHET MUHAMMED STEMS FROM PREVIOUS PROPHETS> THE VASTNESS OF THIS WISDOM IS HIGHLY MISUNDERSTOOD BY MUSHRIHKS AND KAAFIRS< IN FACT GODLESS PEOPLE HAT IT!!!



Peter

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Re: RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2010, 11:18:56 AM »
THANK YOU PETER

YOU HAVE SUCCESSFULLY POINTED TO THE FACT THAT YOU ARE OPINIONATED< DO NOT BELIEVE THE OPINION OF HIGHLY PRAISED SCHOLARS,.....

Yet these same "highly praised" (by Muslims) so-called scholars blindly follow what they have been indoctrinated to believe is a "history" of thousands of years, but was all created in the 7th and 8th century AD by a bunch of Mohammedans, without reference to actual historical or archaeological record.
The reason, of course, is because there is no historical or archaeological record of Mecca ever existing before Yemeni pagan immigrants built it around the 4th century AD and their Kaaba in the early 5th century for pagan worship that is still conducted by Mohammed's followers today.

BUT YOU TAKE THE WORD OF RAFAT AMARI OVER THE RESEARCHERS OF ISLAM WHO I CAN ASSURE HAD NO HIDDEN AGENDA> MANY HAD OPPOSITION AS THE TRUTH ALWAYS WILL!!

DR RAFATS WORK IS HIGHLY BIASED AND A VERY POORLY WRITTEN ACADEMICALLY AND FACTUALLY INACCURATE!!!

Yet your own article vindicated Dr. Amari by showing that the Sabians did indeed pray the prayers of the heathen 5 times a day, just as the Muslims still do, confirming Dr. Amari's claims that it was the Sabians who Mohammed copied.

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain  repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Peter

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Re: RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2010, 12:07:54 PM »
http://www.drack.info/spenta_mainyu_2/sabian2.htm

"DAILY PRAYERS

    *
      Sabians had daily prayers with units, bowing down and prostration (Islam has adopted this practice). They prayed three times daily; before sunrise, at noon, and at the sunset. These were obligatory (Islam in the beginning had same number of daily prayers but later on the number was increased to five times daily). There were three more that were not obligatory but thought of as proper to perform: At the second hour of the day; at the ninth hour of the day; and at the third hour of the night.
    *
      Sabians started their daily prayers by expressing their intent-resolve to pray (Islam has adopted it).
    *
      The prayer at the funeral is without bowing down and prostration (Islam has adopted it intact).
    *
      Ablution before the prayers was necessary in the Sabian faith (Islam has adopted it).
    *
      Sabians had the 'call' to prayer (Islam has adopted it).
    *
      Sabians turned towards a certain direction during their prayers: Sabians of Irak turned to the constellation of Capricorn. Sabians of our time kept this practice (Islam has adopted this practice by establishing supposedly Al-Kuds - Yerushalim - as the direction to turn to in the beginning. But the real k?bla was Bakka-Bekke-Behe).
    *
      I have written earlier that Sabians needed canonical purification of the body before each prayer (In other words, an ablution; the general word for cleanliness-purification is called taharot in Judaism and taharat in Islam). Therefore, following a sexual union, bodily cleaning is necessary. Sabians were obliged to immerse themselves fully in the flowing water to get this bodily cleaning. Urinating, passing bowels, breaking wind, touching a woman in her period, touching a woman in the forty-day period following the childbirth, touching a foreigner, and the bleeding of the nose necessitated ablution (accept touching a foreigner Islam has adopted these conditions).
    *
      According to the Mandaean branch of this belief system, prayers - seven times daily - were made compulsory to Adam, and this practice continued until John the Baptist (Yahya) changed it to three times daily."

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AnnaMuslim

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Re: RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2010, 02:10:21 PM »
Quote
"DAILY PRAYERS

    *
      Sabians had daily prayers with units, bowing down and prostration (Islam has adopted this practice). They prayed three times daily; before sunrise, at noon, and at the sunset. These were obligatory (Islam in the beginning had same number of daily prayers but later on the number was increased to five times daily). There were three more that were not obligatory but thought of as proper to perform: At the second hour of the day; at the ninth hour of the day; and at the third hour of the night.
    *
      Sabians started their daily prayers by expressing their intent-resolve to pray (Islam has adopted it).
    *
      The prayer at the funeral is without bowing down and prostration (Islam has adopted it intact).
    *
      Ablution before the prayers was necessary in the Sabian faith (Islam has adopted it).
    *
      Sabians had the 'call' to prayer (Islam has adopted it).
    *
      Sabians turned towards a certain direction during their prayers: Sabians of Irak turned to the constellation of Capricorn. Sabians of our time kept this practice (Islam has adopted this practice by establishing supposedly Al-Kuds - Yerushalim - as the direction to turn to in the beginning. But the real k?bla was Bakka-Bekke-Behe).
    *
      I have written earlier that Sabians needed canonical purification of the body before each prayer (In other words, an ablution; the general word for cleanliness-purification is called taharot in Judaism and taharat in Islam). Therefore, following a sexual union, bodily cleaning is necessary. Sabians were obliged to immerse themselves fully in the flowing water to get this bodily cleaning. Urinating, passing bowels, breaking wind, touching a woman in her period, touching a woman in the forty-day period following the childbirth, touching a foreigner, and the bleeding of the nose necessitated ablution (accept touching a foreigner Islam has adopted these conditions).
    *
      According to the Mandaean branch of this belief system, prayers - seven times daily - were made compulsory to Adam, and this practice continued until John the Baptist (Yahya) changed it to three times daily."

I find that I am not making myself clear:

1. ALL I HAVE SEEN ON THIS WEBSITE IS YOUR DENIAL OF THE VERY TRUTH THAT YOU ARE STATING Plainly but twisting for your own purposes.

2. ALL PROPHETS PRAYED AND THE REASON SABIANS PRAYED THE WAY THEY DO COMES FROM THE PROPHETS. IT IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAT HUMAN BEINGS MAKE UP A RELIGION, A RELIGION IS BASED ON AND OLDER SYSTEM OF BELIEF THAT CAME FROM ALLAH AND AS WE HAVE TODAY VERY OPINIONATED INDIVIDUALS GIVING THEMSELVES UNDUE CREDIT TO BECOME SATANS HELPERS AND MISLEAD OTHERS. ALLAH THEN SENDS ANOTHER PROPHET TO REMIND THE PEOPLE OF THEIR DUTY.

3. YOU SAY THAT MUSLIMS DENY SCRIPTURE BUT YOU KEEP SAYING THAT MUHAMMAD STOLE AND PLAGUERISED FROM PREVIOUS PEOPLE IN ISRAEL IN PERSIA, IN EGYPT AND FROM CHRISTIANS. ALL YOU PROVING IS THAT MUHAMMAD IS A TRUE PROPHET OF ALLAH

4.WHAT I AM REALLY SAYING IS THAT MUHAMMAD HAS COME TO CORRECT THE INCORRECT BELIEF OF THOSE THAT DEVUIATED FROM ISLAM> ONE GOD ALLAH< ONE RELIGION ISLAM FOR ALL THE PROPHETS FROM ADAM TO MUHAMMAD, EVERYTHING ELSE IS A DEVIATION, INCLUDING THE NEW AHMADIAS< QADIANIS< SOME SHIITES< AND EVEN SOOME SUFI ORDERS>

4. YOU MISSING ISLAM"S POINT, AS YOUR PREJUDICE IS CLOUDING YOUR JUDGEMENT MAKING YOU NASTY AND LIARS AND PREJUDICED AGAINST THE VERY TRUTH YOU STATING.

5. LOOKING CLOSELY AT YOUR VERSION OF THE BIRTH OF NABI YASHUA OR YUSYUS OR EESA IT CORRESPONDS VERY CLOSELY TO THE WAY A DALAI LAMA IS BORN, THE STAR THE WISE MEN, THE GIFTS, POMP CEREMONY AND SIGNS.
HE THEN DISAPPEARS TO  LEARN LIKE A BUDIST WOULD.

The 27 books of the New Testament, as known, constitute the fundamental holy scripture of Christianity.

Without the four Gospels according to Matthew, to Mark, to Luke and to John, Christianity is virtually null and void.

Recent epoch-making discoveries of old Sanskrit manuscripts in Central Asia and Kashmir provide decisive proof that the four Greek Gospels have been translated directly from the Sanskrit.

A careful comparison, word by word, sentence by sentence shows that the Christian Gospels are Pirate-copies of the Buddhist Gospels. God's word, therefore, is originally Buddha's word.

Comparison reveals that there is no person, no event, no locality mentioned in the four Christian Gospels not already present in the Buddhist Gospels that, for sure, are far earlier in time than their Christian copies.
A Buddhist original...       ...and a Christian copy
   
The Sanskrit TRi-RaTNaS  becomes the Latin TRi-NiTaS. ...even the name is copied...

Peter

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Re: RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2010, 03:16:40 PM »
Quote
"DAILY PRAYERS

    *
      Sabians had daily prayers with units, bowing down and prostration (Islam has adopted this practice). They prayed three times daily; before sunrise, at noon, and at the sunset. These were obligatory (Islam in the beginning had same number of daily prayers but later on the number was increased to five times daily). There were three more that were not obligatory but thought of as proper to perform: At the second hour of the day; at the ninth hour of the day; and at the third hour of the night.
    *
      Sabians started their daily prayers by expressing their intent-resolve to pray (Islam has adopted it).
    *
      The prayer at the funeral is without bowing down and prostration (Islam has adopted it intact).
    *
      Ablution before the prayers was necessary in the Sabian faith (Islam has adopted it).
    *
      Sabians had the 'call' to prayer (Islam has adopted it).
    *
      Sabians turned towards a certain direction during their prayers: Sabians of Irak turned to the constellation of Capricorn. Sabians of our time kept this practice (Islam has adopted this practice by establishing supposedly Al-Kuds - Yerushalim - as the direction to turn to in the beginning. But the real k?bla was Bakka-Bekke-Behe).
    *
      I have written earlier that Sabians needed canonical purification of the body before each prayer (In other words, an ablution; the general word for cleanliness-purification is called taharot in Judaism and taharat in Islam). Therefore, following a sexual union, bodily cleaning is necessary. Sabians were obliged to immerse themselves fully in the flowing water to get this bodily cleaning. Urinating, passing bowels, breaking wind, touching a woman in her period, touching a woman in the forty-day period following the childbirth, touching a foreigner, and the bleeding of the nose necessitated ablution (accept touching a foreigner Islam has adopted these conditions).
    *
      According to the Mandaean branch of this belief system, prayers - seven times daily - were made compulsory to Adam, and this practice continued until John the Baptist (Yahya) changed it to three times daily."

I find that I am not making myself clear:

1. ALL I HAVE SEEN ON THIS WEBSITE IS YOUR DENIAL OF THE VERY TRUTH THAT YOU ARE STATING Plainly but twisting for your own purposes.

2. ALL PROPHETS PRAYED AND THE REASON SABIANS PRAYED THE WAY THEY DO COMES FROM THE PROPHETS.

But Satanists pray too.
Indeed to the very same deity that Muslims do, only Satanists haven't been deluded into doing it, but rather do it in full knowledge. But you have that knowledge too since you now understand that Mohammed taught the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=148.0

IT IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAT HUMAN BEINGS MAKE UP A RELIGION, A RELIGION IS BASED ON AND OLDER SYSTEM OF BELIEF THAT CAME FROM ALLAH .......

So then next I suppose that you're going to tell us that the golden calf, was sent down by Mohammed's "Allah", the same way he sent down your black stone moon god idol?

AnnaMuslim

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Re: RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2010, 05:57:37 AM »
Quote
Quote from: AnnaMuslim on July 16, 2010, 12:10:21 PM
IT IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAT HUMAN BEINGS MAKE UP A RELIGION, A RELIGION IS BASED ON AND OLDER SYSTEM OF BELIEF THAT CAME FROM ALLAH .......

So then next I suppose that you're going to tell us that the golden calf, was sent down by Mohammed's "Allah", the same way he sent down your black stone moon god idol?

YOU KEEP ARGUING WITH ABSURDITIES: THIS STATEMENT IS TOTALLY ABSURD, HAS NO BASIS IN REALITY, MADE UP BY YOUR OWN IMAGINATION, READ THE BACKGROUND TO THE GOLDEN CALF!

LET ME EXPLAIN TO YOU HOW IDOL WORSHIPPING CAME INTO EFFECT AFTER THE GUIDANCE WAS SENT.

A person dies, those that grieve honour him by a token or symbol, later generations enlarge the importance of the symbol and it eventually becomes an idol,

A person dies, gentle and Good, people loves him and start to write doctrines about him, he is eventually diefied.

DEAF DUMB AND BLIND IS WHAT YOU ARE TO THE TRUTH



YOU RAFAT AMARI AND SKOLLFIELDS ARGUMENTS ARE BASE ON SCRIPTURE BUT THE CONJECTURE AND OPINIONS ARE ABSURD< THEY MAKE NO SENSE

TO THE SCHOLARS (THAT IS WHY VERY FEW EVEN DEEM IT NECESSARY TO RESPOND TO IT) FIND IT HIGHLY ABSURD


Peter

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Re: RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2010, 07:01:29 AM »
Quote
Quote from: AnnaMuslim on July 16, 2010, 12:10:21 PM
IT IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAT HUMAN BEINGS MAKE UP A RELIGION, A RELIGION IS BASED ON AND OLDER SYSTEM OF BELIEF THAT CAME FROM ALLAH .......

So then next I suppose that you're going to tell us that the golden calf, was sent down by Mohammed's "Allah", the same way he sent down your black stone moon god idol?

YOU KEEP ARGUING WITH ABSURDITIES: THIS STATEMENT IS TOTALLY ABSURD, HAS NO BASIS IN REALITY, MADE UP BY YOUR OWN IMAGINATION, READ THE BACKGROUND TO THE GOLDEN CALF!

It was you who made the ridiculous statement.

IT IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAT HUMAN BEINGS MAKE UP A RELIGION, A RELIGION IS BASED ON AND OLDER SYSTEM OF BELIEF THAT CAME FROM ALLAH

Like L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology, for a more modern example?
The basis on which someone chooses to reject scripture, and make a god of their own creation is irrelevant, as the outcome for that person is the same.
All false doctrine is of Satan, whether it is from a 7th century false prophet that makes it obvious that he has nothing to do with God and everything to do with Satan through murder, prisoner rape and common thievery, or whether it is from an 18th century false prophet that claims to have seen an angel that gave him "revelations" that change the Gospel.

Surely you can see how utterly preposterous suggesting that the Kaaba in Mecca, that pagan immigrants from Yemen built in the 5th century AD to worship what became 360 idols, representing the moon, sun, stars and jinn/demons, could have in any way been "based" on anything of God.
That Mohammed saved one idol, that you bow toward 5 times a day, and perform the exact same rituals around that the pagans invented and performed, should make it even more apparent. But then, the power of the spirit of antichrist will never cease to amaze.

2Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


Bistabuster

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Re: RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2015, 05:47:22 PM »
Ramadan, the ninth month of the Islamic calendar and the rigid observance of thirty days of fasting during the daylight hours, has pagan roots developed in India and the Middle East. The observance of fasting to honor the moon, and ending the fast when the moon's crescent appears, was practiced with the rituals of the Eastern worshippers of the moon. Both Ibn al-Nadim and the Shahrastani tell us about  al-Jandrikinieh, an Indian sect which began to fast when the moon disappeared and ended the fast with a great feast when the crescent reappeared[1].

And thus, the Islamic symbol (Which Islam is NOT to have, yet they do) was born!

PeteWaldo

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Re: RAMADAN AND ITS ROOTS
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2016, 02:45:54 PM »
http://www.theexmuslim.com/2016/06/06/refuse-say-ramadan-mubarak-year-heres/
"I wont say Ramadan Mubarak to those who practice this year."

"Because I can no longer in good conscience give well wishes about a month requiring believers to forego food and water and sex on pain of damnation and the torture of hellfire.

Where a single day of broken fast in Ramadan requires a penance of 60 consecutive days of fasting or feeding 60 poor folks to make it up, or burn for it.

Where not practicing comes with severe social stigma and moral horror at best and violence at worst in the majority of global Muslim communities.

Where the majority of global Muslim communities require participation in public rites of worship and/or police private worship and conduct in this month.

Where in the majority of global Muslim communities shaming and body policing in this month especially are normalized as virtues under the spiritual principles of al-amr belma’roof welnahi ‘an almonkar (adjoining the good and condemning the bad), invoking the very values of self-control, generosity, patience, and charity that are so often upheld as the positive spiritual essence of Ramadan.

Where, in fact, the majority of global Muslim communities treat religious devotion like a competition, have a thousand little social encouragements for more intense practice (eg praise for pregnant or ill people who fast anyway, people who work themselves exhausted and ill to display generosity, which is a social currency) and a thousand little discouragements for not doing damn enough (eg shaming people for not doing extra/optional prayers or staying up all night worshipping for Laylat alQadr–also don’t get me started on Layali al-Qadr, that’s it’s own clusterF***). A thousand needles, bearing into the minutia of daily living.

Where in the majority of global Muslim communities gender roles still dictate that women are expected to do domestic labor, often as a priority at the expense of their work or schooling, and social expectations and demands are so severely heightened in that regard this month.

And so on (and on and on)."