Author Topic: First Epistle of John confirms Mohammed - Deedat  (Read 7045 times)

Peter

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First Epistle of John confirms Mohammed - Deedat
« on: March 06, 2009, 12:54:56 PM »
Here's a video that responds to the following Greek sophist styled entertainment of the famous Islamic deceiver Ahmed Deedat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_4_tbN-b_A

[edit add 10-13-14] Expanded version and complete exegesis of the Deedat video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLnEZ4nUhoU [end edit]

In a video Deedat was asked:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=378BJmoU-fM

"The question addressed to Mr. Deedat, 'Through your knowledge of the Moslem faith, can you vouch for the fact that Mohammed was not antichrist?'"

In that video he made the following claim that is widely parroted by his sorely deceived followers: "No Muslim is a Muslim unless he believes in Jesus."

Of course secular historians and even atheists believe that Jesus existed. Tragically, the simple fact is, that no Muslim is a Muslim unless he DISbelieves Jesus' crucifixion, DENIES the Son of God and REJECTS His shed blood that would save them from sin, because faith in the false prophet Muhammad consists of what NOT to believe. Muhammad requiring his followers to DISbelieve the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.

Deedat made up a false bible verse to claim that Mohammed was not antichrist.
He repeated his phony homemade bible verse in this different venue so we can rest assured that it wasn't a mistake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKMMr4lZx2E

Mr Deedat quoted 1John 4:1 almost perfectly out of the King James Version of God's Word:
1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Then Deedat said "...it continues..." but then made up his own phony non-existent verse and recited:
"The spirit that confesseth that Jesus is the Christ is of God."

There are only 3 verses that use Deedat's phrase "...that Jesus is the Christ...".
Following is one of them that also happens to be a test of persons rather than a test of spirits:

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

What we can see is that it not only comes from John's First Epistle that Deedat claimed proved Mohammed was not antichrist, but it actually identifies not only Mohammed, but Deedat and all Muslims, as antichrists, because the belief that God has no Son is the most important fundamental in Islam. This proves the EXACT OPPOSITE of Deedat's false claim through his phony homemade bible verse. Proving Mohammed was not just another false prophet, but EXACTLY OPPOSITE Jesus Christ - antichrist.

The full text of the First Epistle of John, from the same King James Version Deedat quoted from, can be accessed at this link http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=273.0
The only 2 other verses that use the phrase "that Jesus is the Christ" are:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=%22that+Jesus+is+the+Christ%22&t=KJV

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

From the same author, those really support Mohammed as a true prophet don't they?! Ya right!

There are only 4 verses in scripture that use the term "antichrist", quoted and discussed here:
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=624.0

The only verse anything like the one that Deedat quoted is:

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

And just as it says it is a test of SPIRITS. The spirit within, or giving utterance through the person must be asked, not the person himself. Like when a person talks in tongues. Or like the spirit that Mohammed met in the cave, that he initially properly identified as a demon, as he said it felt like it tried to squeeze the life out of him 3 times. All he would have had to have done is apply this test, and it might have saved the world 1400 years of Mohammedan mayhem, misery, and murder.

2Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

If 1John 4:2 were misunderstood as a test of PERSONS, it's easy to see that a Satanist could honestly confess that verse. So according to Deedat's foolish nonsense that satanist would be a true prophet.

The terms "spirit" and "prophet" are never interchangeable, or synonymous, in scripture, as Deedat preposterously suggested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKMMr4lZx2E

Strong's definitions:

the spirits
New Testament Greek Definition:
4151 pneuma {pnyoo'-mah}
from 4154; TDNT - 6:332,876; n n
AV - Spirit 111, Holy Ghost 89, Spirit (of God) 13,
Spirit (of the Lord) 5, (My) Spirit 3, Spirit (of truth) 3,
Spirit (of Christ) 2, human (spirit) 49, (evil) spirit 47,
spirit (general) 26, spirit 8, (Jesus' own) spirit 6,
(Jesus' own) ghost 2
, misc 21; 385

prophet
New Testament Greek Definition:
4396 prophetes {prof-ay'-tace}
from a compound of 4253 and 5346; TDNT - 6:781,952; n m
AV - prophet 149; 149

We can see by the word counts in the definitions above that:
The Greek word "pneuma", translated as "spirit", is NEVER translated as prophet.
The Greek word "prophetes", translated as "prophet", is NEVER also translated as spirit.

Koine Greek was the lingua franca of the 1st century and the language that the New Testament was written in.

It's 1400 years too late to try the spirits that caused Mohammed to writhe on the ground and foam at the mouth.
It's 1400 years too late to try what Mohammed correctly believed to be jinn that met him in that deep dark cave.
Mohammed was convinced it was a demon until his wife convinced him otherwise, and she wasn't even witness to his feeling squeezed nearly to death by the demon three times.
That's what is so important about having all of the witnesses in God's Word.

2Corinthians 13:1 This [is] the third [time] I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

And what is the opinion of a lone woman (in this case Mohammed's wife) worth in Islam anyway? Jack squat.

"...if the two be not men, then one man and two women, such witnesses as you approve of, that if one of the two women errs the other will remind her..." (Sura al-Baqara 2:282)

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/#women

By Deedat's preposterous test if you asked a Satanist if Jesus is the Christ and he said yes, which would be truthful for him to say, then that would make him a true prophet.
What if you asked a liar the same question and he answered yes? Would that make him a true prophet?
What about someone suffering under the delusion of a demon like the one Mohammed met in the cave? He could say Jesus is the Christ and then spew whatever it was that Satan directed him to (like Mohammed did). However, if the spirit was tried it could not make that confession. That's the whole point of the test.
The whole notion of a test as Deedat suggested is transparently ridiculous.


Peter

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YouTube chat missgaga555
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 03:59:59 PM »
The power Ahmed Deedat has over his bible-ignorant minions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJhcjiNEwGo

OMG this guy is so stupid!
But really Good answer by Dr. Naik about the historical records, all of them do this, it is so pathetic because their bible denies the crucifixion, they leave their “word of God” Loolz, and ask for the historians help!! Which is stupid because a historian’s job is to record people beliefs not to prove them!!!! Consequently you’ll find some historians agree and other deny it!!
Great answer, THX Dr. Naik :)
missgaga555 4 days ago

@missgaga555 "Which is stupid because a historian’s job is to record people beliefs not to prove them!!!!"
That's a very good point. So why do you believe Ibn Ishak and a bunch of semi-literate 7th and 8th century SW Arabian desert dwellers that embellished his account, of people and events that took place over 2,000 years, before they penned them?
watch?v=J_fX_kuVER4
Why do you prostrate yourself to the Quraish's black stone idol 5 times a day?
watch?v=yR3Bla8YwbU
watch?v=xfWy5KaFvbU
PeteWaldo 22 hours ago

@missgaga555 Why would you trust the buffoonery and proven lies and fake bible verse of Deedat, and his self-described disciple Naik, rather than reading the Gospel for yourself?
watch?v=YDslsWDzPIc
4:136 ...Believe in ... the scripture which He sent to those before (him).
How can you believe in something you have never read?
islamandthetruth. com
Muhammad declared the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.
watch?v=kEJ1hk4lH3U
Indeed Islam is antichrist
watch?v=w71CtxLdjio
PeteWaldo 22 hours ago

@PeteWaldo
1
Who said that I've never read??!
Naik, and Deedat have NEVER EVER quoted wrong scriptures, I think everything they claim they bring a ref. from the bible
Now Jesus in many scriptures distinguished himself from God:
Do not call me good, only God should be called so.! Mark 10:18
Not my will but God will. (Luke 22:41-42,Mark 14:36)
and he is talking to God in prostration while he was praying, this is what Muslims EXACTLY LITERALLY do! (Matthew 26:39, Matthew 26:42)
missgaga555 21 hours ago

@PeteWaldo
2
He says you, the only true God. John 17:3
He says: I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God. John 20:17
He said in his own he can do NOTHING! John 5:19
Jesus Prays in the bible! God pray? To whom he is praying? Mark1:35
Trinity NEVER occurred in the Bible! (When it occurred, John 5:7, the bible scholars threw it OUT! Why?)
Jesus denied his resurrection. Luke 36-43
missgaga555 21 hours ago

@PeteWaldo
3
Now Christians quote all the time verses that has glimpse about Jesus being God, and I’m asking if he is God why don’t he declare himself clearly, God is the first thing in any religion that should be clear, why don’t he say I’m GOD, WORSHIP ME! Is God supposed to hide himself? And leave people in doubts?
Because people are in doubts, lots of christians are questioning if Jesus is God, and they are discussing, when God shouldn't be a topic of discussions, he should be so clear!
missgaga555 21 hours ago

@missgaga555 "Who said that I've never read??!" The fact that you didn't understand the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel is the crucifixion, death and resurrection of the Messiah, to save all from sin who have faith in His shed blood.
"Naik, and Deedat have NEVER EVER quoted wrong scriptures, I think everything they claim they bring a ref. from the bible"
See how thoroughly Deedat deceived you? I prove his deception unequivocally here.
watch?v=YDslsWDzPIc
text
brotherpete. com/index. php?topic=335.0
PeteWaldo 19 hours ago

@PeteWaldo
Well if you understand the bible in a different way , that doesn’t mean that I’m wrong! :)
I watched the video!! You’re the one who is DECIEVING people! LOOLZ
The verse does say that the sprit that denies Jesus christ is not from God, and prophet muhammed never denied Jesus christ!
Do not try to catch a mistake on Deedat you won’t be able :D
The hundreds of reverends he debated with were always HELPLESS! They NEVER replied back his arguments!
WATCH HIS DEBATES! HE IS AMAZING!
missgaga555 3 hours ago

@missgaga555 And there it is for all to see. She is so hopelessly deceived that she still can't see Deedat's deception. Let me quote a test of persons from the same KJV that Deedat pretended to quote from.
1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER:
Perhaps a few more verses regarding antichrists that deny the Son of God from the same Epistle Deedat quoted
PeteWaldo 16 minutes ago

Same Epistle Deedat quoted from 1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] HE THAT HATH NOT THE SON OF GOD HATH NOT LIFE.
1John 5:10 He that BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because HE BELIEVED NOT THE RECORD that God gave OF HIS SON.
Gospel of John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.
1.5 billion antichrists
PeteWaldo 8 minutes ago
__________________________

I finished with this post related to the topic of the YouTube but it didn't post. I suspect I was banned.

No mainstream sect of Judaism denies that Jesus was crucified, and of course not a single Christian over the last nearly 2,000 years has ever denied the crucifixion, death and resurrection of the Messiah, or they wouldn't be a Christian since that's the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel. Yet when we ask Muhammadans WHO DID die on the cross we find "those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow."
watch?v=yR3Bla8YwbU
watch?v=ujUOZyrnewE

Peter

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Re: First Epistle of John confirms Mohammed - Deedat
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2011, 08:49:16 AM »
PM from Al3, and reply on 7-20-11

[[[[re:Deedat - First Epistle of John confirms Mohammed was not antichrist
you are one stupid and deaf person

DEEDAT was reciting from the Epistle of john 4:1
and you red from john 1:1]]]]]

Sorry, my friend, but Deedat was reciting a phony verse of his own creation. One that he constructed in part from a passage that details a test OF SPIRITS, not persons. Here is how we can know whether A PERSON is antichrist, excerpted from the very same version, that Deedat pretended to quote from.

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

Perhaps a little more scripture would help bring the point home.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world. 15 Whosoever shall confess that JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1 John 5:5  Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] HE THAT HATH NOT THE SON OF GOD HATH NOT LIFE.   

2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath BOTH the Father AND THE SON.
                           
1John 5:10  He that BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because HE BELIEVED NOT THE RECORD that God gave OF HIS SON.

Hebrews 10:29 Of HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, WHO HATH TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, and HATH COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, wherewith he was sanctified, AN UNHOLY THING, and hath DONE DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be FALSE TEACHERS among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, EVEN DENYING THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM, AND BRING UPON THEMSELVES SWIFT DESTRUCTION.   

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.    

Do you find anything ambiguous about this subject now? You can see how Deedat's lies are exposed as nothing more than buffoonery.

[[[[stop being smart cuz you are NOT

and I think you know that you are one ignorant loser thats why you disabled the comment section on the video]]]]]

I can't squander my time with 500 character rapidly revolving lies and sniping by those so sorely deluded by their famous Greek sophist styled entertainer and consummate liar Ahmed Deedat.

I offer far better than that in the forum where we can ENGAGE in thoughtful EXCHANGE over time, and at our own pace. There is a link to the forum on every video. Here is the link to the thread for this video. Why not log in and we can explore it together?

http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=335.0

Yet even after you can see how Deedat duped you I have little doubt that you will continue to go on praising him. This is because your reality is inverted. To follow THE false prophet Muhammad lies are your truth, so the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ must be considered to be a lie. You follow the father of lies through his 7th century prophet Muhammad, even prostrating yourself to the Quraish pagan's black stone idol 5 times a day. All while following an imperialistic conquering mass murdering, prisoner abusing, thief, that declared the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I'll pray for you my friend.

How about I copy and paste your PM and my as a reply on that thread and we can continue from there?