Author Topic: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam  (Read 20950 times)

Peter

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Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« on: June 11, 2009, 05:39:24 PM »
I will keep adding to the OP from the posts below. A dozen parallels are currently listed between the RCC and Islam.

Both have censored the differing voices of others through murder
Both engaged in this kind of murder, because of an inability to defend indefensible doctrine, and both have murdered millions as a result. The Roman Church murders including murder of Christians as well as apostates (historically speaking regarding apostates, for the RCC, though the doctrine still stands)
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=484.0

Whether the Papal murder of Jews, and Christian reformers, while teaching that non-Catholics are headed to hell (though some wishfully suggest that the most recent catechism would seem to contradict this Roman Church tradition).
When I was a kid the Roman Church taught that it was a mortal sin for a Roman Catholic to attend any other Christian church.
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In Islam the 1400 year slaughter of Christians and Jews, and the censorship of Bibles and Christian materials in Islamic countries, along with the destruction of synagogues and churches.
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geutP1T5FK6RIBWdxXNyoA?p=nigeria+chuch+burnings&y=Search&fr=yfp-t-501&fr2=sb-top&sao=1
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Both the Roman Church and Islam have expressed hatred for Jews

Pope Stephen III: "With great sorrow and mortal anxiety, We have heard that the Jews have in a Christian land the same rights as Christians, that Christian men and women live under the same roof with these traitors and defile their souls day and night with blasphemies." (Epistle to the Bishop of Norbonne)

Pope Clement VIII: "The Bible itself says that the Jews are an accursed people."

Tons more Papal quotes at this link:
http://www.romancatholicism.org/popes-jews.htm

This subject is, of course, no secret.

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Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'"
Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176 - Sunna: Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985)
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_14_The_Anti-Semite.Islam
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Death penalty for apostasy

http://www.biblebelievers.com/chiniquy/cc50_ch67.html

"But the reader has the right to know something of the dangers through which it has pleased God to make me pass.

Rome is the same today as she was when she burned John Huss and Wishart, and when she caused 70,000 Protestants to be slaughtered in France, and 100,000 to be exterminated in Piedmont in Italy.

On the 31st of December, 1869, I forced the Rt. Rev. Bishop Foley, of Chicago, to swear before the civil court, at Kankakee, that the following sentence was an exact translation of the doctrine of the Church of Rome as taught today in all the Roman Catholic seminaries, colleges, and universities, through the "Summa Theologica" of Thomas Aquinas (vol. iv. p. 90). "Though heretics must not be tolerated because they deserve it, we must bear with them till, by a second admonition, they may be brought back to the faith of the church. But those who, after a second admonition, remain obstinate to their errors, must not only be excommunicated, but they must be delivered to the secular power to be exterminated."
http://www.biblebelievers.com/chiniquy/cc50_ch67.html

Here are some modern day Roman Catholics that are true to their church doctrine and favor burning at the stake for apostasy. As of Sept 2012 the forum poll had 20 votes in favor of burning heretics and 71 opposed to it. That's over 25% of their members in favor of burning heretics. Now THAT is an example of blind bondage. Sharing the same heart condition as those who cheered the practice on during the middle ages.
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=95169

It is on account of this law of the Church of Rome, which is today in full force, as it was promulgated for the first time, that not less than thirty public attempts have been made to kill me since my conversion."

Exsurge Domine (1520) "we condemn, reprobate, and reject completely ... [other things rejected] ... that heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit."
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Whether in Saudi Arabia today, the Christian beheading capital of the world, or the same over the last 1400 years.
The penalty for turning away from Islam is death.
Even in Canada (video): http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=DLDWGGNX#alertbar

Similar to the RCC, in Islam the traditional waiting period during which a person is allowed to "repent", and return to Islam, is 3 days in jail.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/apostasy.htm
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Both believe they enter their religions as infants

The Roman Church teaches that one becomes a Christian by having a Priest sprinkle "holy water" on one's head, though there is no example of infant baptism in scripture.
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1510.0
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Islam teaches that if one is born to Muslim parents, then one is born a Muslim.
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Both religions are anti-intellectualism.

"In an age of barbarism the popes led the pack, in an age of enlightenment they trailed the field." - Peter de Rosa -  Vicars of Christ
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"The history of Islam has been one of anti-intellectualism. Islam inherited a vast body of information from the Greeks, but eventually did little with it. The answer is found in the educational system of early and later Islam."

http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=628.msg3199#msg3199
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Lying for God

From late 19th century, 25 year priest, Charles Chiniquy quoting Roman doctrine:

"It is often more to the glory of God and the good of our neighbor to cover the faith than to confess it; for example, if concealed among heretics, you may accomplish a greater amount of good; or if, by declaring our religion, more of evil would follow - for example, great trouble, death, the hostility of a tyrant." (liguori, "Theologia Moralis, t. ii n. 14, p 117 Mechlin, 1845.)

That Roman view is exposed in God's Word:

Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 8 And not [rather], (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

But that would not be slanderous reporting of the Roman "church".
..............................

This Roman church view of lying, as if for God's benefit, is the very same as the Mohammedan concept of "taqiyyah", or lying in the way of Allah - Islamic subterfuge or dissimulation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya
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Prayers of the heathen.

The Word of God instructs in the matter of prayer:

1Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing.

This describes a relationship and constant communication with God through the Holy Spirit, not vain ritual.


Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Roman Catholicism is steeped in repetitive prayer, whether rosary, prayers ordered by a confessor, etc. etc..
...........................

For Mohammedans, the Hadith tells us that earlier Muslims were instructed to pray 50 times a day. Mohammed later reduced this to a more manageable 5 times per day after his alleged flight on a horse.

From "Infidel" Ali explains part of salat, "You say Praise be to Allah thirty-three times; God forgive me thirty-three times; Allah is great thirty-three times; and then, if you choose, you may also say Gratitude to Allah."
That's a total of 495 repetitions of just those first three prayers - every day - because Muslims are commanded to perform salat fives times a day.

Muslim prayer beads

Rosary beads
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Idol Worship

Exd 20:4 THOU SHALT NOT MAKE UNTO THEE any graven image, or ANY LIKENESS [OF ANY THING] THAT [IS] IN HEAVEN above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:

Just as Roman Catholics surround themselves with likenesses of things in heaven, bow to them and kiss them, and Orthodox venerate their "icons" (brought into the church by Constantine's mother)
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The Mohammedans bow 5 times a day to a black rock that resides in Mecca. They are required to visit the rock and march around and around it for days, some kissing and rubbing on it.

All of the above, of course, deny idolatry.
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Veneration of Mary

Mohammedans join with Roman Catholics in the veneration of Mary. Though blessed among other women...]]]

Luk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed [art] thou among women, and blessed [is] the fruit of thy womb.

[[[... did Jesus suggest we venerate Mary?

John 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. 4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. 5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do [it].

No Roman Catholic would deny this 19th century Roman dogma or risk being subjected to the fires of hell.
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=16.0

"ASSUMPTION -- At the end of her life, Mary was taken up ("assumed") body and soul into Heaven. ("Catechism" 966, 974)

There is no biblical reference to the assumption of Mary. The Gospel of John was written around 90 A.D., which is more than 100 years after Mary was born. (Surely Mary was more than ten years old when Jesus was conceived.) If Mary had been supernaturally assumed into Heaven, wouldn't John (the disciple that Mary lived with) have mentioned it? When Enoch and Elijah were taken up to Heaven, the Bible recorded it. With Elijah it was recorded in some detail. (See Genesis 6:24 and 2 Kings 2:1-18.)

The Assumption of Mary was officially declared to be a dogma of the Roman Catholic faith in 1950. This means that every Roman Catholic is required to believe this doctrine without questioning it. However, as we will see, the teaching of the Assumption originated with heretical writings which were officially condemned by the early Church.

In 495 A.D., Pope Gelasius issued a decree which rejected this teaching as heresy and its proponents as heretics. In the sixth century, Pope Hormisdas also condemned as heretics those authors who taught the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary. The early Church clearly considered the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary to be a heresy worthy of condemnation. Here we have "infallible" popes declaring something to be a heresy. Then in 1950, Pope Pius XII, another "infallible" pope, declared it to be official Roman Catholic doctrine. (Note 15)"
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=16.0
.......................................

Mohammed most likely got Mohammedan veneration of Mary during some of his consultations with a defrocked Roman Catholic priest. A whole chapter in the Quran is devoted to Mary, the only woman named in the Quran, though Mohammed's confusion was off by generations, suggesting that Mary was the sister of Aaron.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/mary.htm

19 MARYAM (MARY)

Both Roman Catholics and Muslims venerate Mary at Fatima.

http://www.buddhistview.com/site/epage/18341_225.htm
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/spirituality/mary-worship.htm
http://www.spiritdaily.org/fatimacontroversy2.htm
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Conquest through population.

The Roman church and Mohammedanism are united on this point as well.

The Pope populating with Roman Catholics through deprivation of birth control.
Another device is through questions asked of married women at auricular confession.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=425.0
In the early days of the U.S. the Roman church putting efforts into populating U.S. cities with Irish Catholics to take over the politics and eventually rule the U.S..
..............................

Mohammedanism as it always has lusted after rule of all the kingdoms of the world. The reason is because these kingdoms have been Satan's legal possession ever since Adam's fall:

http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?board=51.0
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_beast.htm#islamic_invasion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jqCwqrz68g
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Governance and rule of all mankind

The Roman church seeks to rule all mankind with the church. This explains the dark history of Romanism which includes the murder of millions of Jews, Muslims and Christians. Their doctrine regarding control of all mankind remains unaltered.

The freedom and right to self-determination guaranteed under the U.S. constitution are the very antithesis of the Roman church, just as freedom is the enemy of Islam. The Pope voiced support for the South during the civil war in order to cause Roman Catholic soldiers in the northern army to defect. Maximizing non Roman Catholic casualties being a goal.
The pope calling for a new world order wherein the Roman Church would presumably be the arbiter of right and wrong.
............................

Islam, of course, has lusted after the kingdoms of the world for 1400 years. Whether the First and Second Islamic Jihads, or Ahmadinejad - "Do not doubt Allah will prevail, and Islam will conquer mountaintops of the entire world."
The "dar el salaam" or house of peace, conquest of the "dar el harb" or house of war. If you are a non-Muslim you may not be at war against Islam, but Islam has been at war against you for 1400 years.
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=712.0
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?board=51.0
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Both are religions of salvation through works

Both are religions of works, that teach that we earn our own way to heaven through our own good deeds, rather than salvation being a gift of God through faith in Him.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Not understanding that good deeds and works are the RESULT of salvation, NOT the path to it:

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
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[added 12-5-10] Propitiation of sin promised by leaders, for shedding blood while engaged in imperialistic conquest.

"If those who go thither lose their lives on land or sea during the journey, or in battle against the pagans, their sins will at once be forgiven; I grant this through the power of God conferred on me... 11"
http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Hist/H-0501.htm

First drop of blood spilled by an Islamic so-called "martyr" (who dies inadvertently while in the act of slaughtering others during imperialistic conquest) .....
This is the reason that so many Muslims travel from more peaceful Islamic countries, that are not at war, to fight in places like Afghanistan. Hoping they are killed to be sent straight to Mohammed's chicken and wine serving bordello that he called "paradise".
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=264.0
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Those in bondage to the Roman church please read "50 Years in the 'Church' of Rome by Charles Chiniquy - a Roman Catholic priest for 25 years.
http://www.biblebelievers.com/chiniquy/index.html

The scarlet beast may represent Satan's kingdom, and harlots the false church of men teaching their own precepts throughout history, with the RCC as the mother: http://www.biblebelievers.com/chiniquy/cc50_ch53.html

Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. 


Peter

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Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Mohammedanism
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 11:10:18 AM »
Isaiah 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Few things illustrate unsound doctrine more, than the holders of that doctrine silencing the voices of reason that point out the error. Murder of detractors and dissenters is the stuff of cults. Islam and the Roman Church.

http://www.biblebelievers.com/chiniquy/cc50_ch67.html

"But the reader has the right to know something of the dangers through which it has pleased God to make me pass.

Rome is the same today as she was when she burned John Huss and Wishart, and when she caused 70,000 Protestants to be slaughtered in France, and 100,000 to be exterminated in Piedmont in Italy.

On the 31st of December, 1869, I forced the Rt. Rev. Bishop Foley, of Chicago, to swear before the civil court, at Kankakee, that the following sentence was an exact translation of the doctrine of the Church of Rome as taught today in all the Roman Catholic seminaries, colleges, and universities, through the "Summa Theologica" of Thomas Aquinas (vol. iv. p. 90). "Though heretics must not be tolerated because they deserve it, we must bear with them till, by a second admonition, they may be brought back to the faith of the church. But those who, after a second admonition, remain obstinate to their errors, must not only be excommunicated, but they must be delivered to the secular power to be exterminated."

It is on account of this law of the Church of Rome, which is today in full force, as it was promulgated for the first time, that not less than thirty public attempts have been made to kill me since my conversion."

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/traditional_framework.htm

From Mary Collins chapter on The Eucharist:

"One final quote, taken from "Foxe's Book of Martyrs" recounts how Mrs. Prest of Cornwall was accused of denying transubstantiation. Her final words to the Catholic bishop prior to being burned at the stake are very illuminating.

[Can you] deny your creed which says that Christ doth perpetually sit at the right hand of His Father, both body and soul, until He comes again; or whether He be there in heaven our Advocate, and to make prayer for us unto God His Father? If He be so, He is not here on earth in a piece of bread. If He be not here, and if He do not dwell in temples made with hands, but in heaven, what! Shall we seek Him here? If He did not offer His body once for all, why make you a new offering? If with one offering He made all perfect, why do you with a false offering make all imperfect? If He be to be worshipped in spirit and in truth, why do you worship a piece of bread? If He be eaten and drunken in faith and truth, if His flesh is not profitable to be among us, why do you say you make His flesh and blood, and say it is profitable for body and soul? Alas! I am a poor woman, but rather than to do as you do, I would live no longer. [16]"

http://brotherpete.com/catholic_concerns.htm

Peter

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Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Mohammedanism
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 06:34:41 PM »
A few excerpts from Fox's:

http://www.biblebelievers.com/foxes/fox104.htm
Papal Persecutions

Persecutions of the Albigenses

The reformation of papistical error very early was projected in France; for in the third century a learned man, named Almericus, and six of his disciples, were ordered to be burnt at Paris for asserting that God was no otherwise present in the sacramental bread than in any other bread; that it was idolatry to build altars or shrines to saints and that it was ridiculous to offer incense to them.

The martyrdom of Almericus and his pupils did not, however, prevent many from acknowledging the justness of his notions, and seeing the purity of the reformed religion, so that the faith of Christ continually increased, and in time not only spread itself over many parts of France, but diffused the light of the Gospel over various other countries.

In the year 1524, at a town in France, called Melden, one John Clark set up a bill on the church door, wherein he called the pope Antichrist. For this offence he was repeatedly whipped, and then branded on the forehead. Going afterward to Mentz, in Lorraine, he demolished some images, for which he had his right hand and nose cut off, and his arms and breast torn with pincers. He sustained these cruelties with amazing fortitude, and was even sufficiently cool to sing the One hundredth and fifteenth Psalm, which expressly forbids idolatry; after which he was thrown into the fire, and burnt to ashes.

Many persons of the reformed persuasion were, about this time, beaten, racked, scourged, and burnt to death, in several parts of France, but more particularly at Paris, Malda, and Limosin.

A native of Malda was burnt by a slow fire, for saying that Mass was a plain denial of the death and passion of Christ. At Limosin, John de Cadurco, a clergyman of the reformed religion, was apprehended and ordered to be burnt.

Francis Bribard, secretary to cardinal de Pellay, for speaking in favor of the reformed, had his tongue cut out, and was then burnt, A.D. 1545. James Cobard, a schoolmaster in the city of St. Michael, was burnt, A.D. 1545, for saying 'That Mass was useless and absurd'; and about the same time, fourteen men were burnt at Malda, their wives being compelled to stand by and behold the execution.

A.D. 1546, Peter Chapot brought a number of Bibles in the French tongue to France, and publicly sold them there; for which he was brought to trial, sentenced, and executed a few days afterward. Soon after, a cripple of Meaux, a schoolmaster of Fera, named Stephen Poliot, and a man named John English, were burnt for the faith.

Monsieur Blondel, a rich jeweler, was, in A.D. 1548, apprehended at Lyons, and sent to Paris; there he was burnt for the faith by order of the court, A.D. 1549. Herbert, a youth of nineteen years of age, was committed to the flames at Dijon; as was also Florent Venote in the same year.

In the year 1554, two men of the reformed religion, with the son and daughter of one of them, were apprehended and committed to the castle of Niverne. On examination, they confessed their faith, and were ordered to execution; being smeared with grease, brimstone, and gunpowder, they cried, "Salt on, salt on this sinful and rotten flesh." Their tongues were then cut out, and they were afterward committed to the flames, which soon consumed them, by means of the combustible matter with which they were besmeared.

http://www.biblebelievers.com/foxes/fox108.htm
An Account of the Persecutions in Bohemia Under the Papacy

Persecution of John Huss

When the chain was put about him at the stake, he said, with a smiling countenance, "My Lord Jesus Christ was bound with a harder chain than this for my sake, and why then should I be ashamed of this rusty one?"

When the fagots were piled up to his very neck, the duke of Bavaria was so officious as to desire him to abjure. "No, (said Huss;) I never preached any doctrine of an evil tendency; and what I taught with my lips I now seal with my blood." He then said to the executioner, "You are now going to burn a goose, (Huss signifying goose in the Bohemian language:) but in a century you will have a swan which you can neither roast nor boil." If he were prophetic, he must have meant Martin Luther, who shone about a hundred years after, and who had a swan for his arms.

The flames were now applied to the fagots, when our martyr sung a hymn with so loud and cheerful a voice that he was heard through all the cracklings of the combustibles, and the noise of the multitude. At length his voice was interrupted by the severity of the flames, which soon closed his existence.

Then, with great diligence, gathering the ashes together, they cast them into the river Rhine, that the least remnant of that man should not be left upon the earth, whose memory, notwithstanding, cannot be abolished out of the minds of the godly, neither by fire, neither by water, neither by any kind oof torment.

Persecution of Jerome of Prague

The trial being over, Jerome received the same sentence that had been passed upon his martyred countryman. In consequence of this, he was, in the usual style of popish affectation, delivered over to the civil power: but as he was a layman, he had not to undergo the ceremony of degradation. They had prepared a cap of paper painted with red devils, which being put upon his head, he said, "Our Lord Jesus Christ, when He suffered death for me a most miserable sinner, did wear a crown of thorns upon His head, and for His sake will I wear this cap."

Two days were allowed him in hopes that he would recant; in which time the cardinal of Florence used his utmost endeavors to bring him over. But they all proved ineffectual. Jerome was resolved to seal the doctrine with his blood; and he suffered death with the most distinguished magnanimity.

In going to the place of execution he sang several hymns, and when he came to the spot, which was the same where Huss had been burnt, he knelt down, and prayed fervently. He embraced the stake with great cheerfulness, and when they went behind him to set fire to the fagots, he said, "Come here, and kindle it before my eyes; for if I had been afraid of it, I had not come to this place." The fire being kindled, he sang a hymn, but was soon interrupted by the flames; and the last words he was heard to say these, "This soul in flames I offer Christ, to Thee."

The elegant Pogge, a learned gentleman of Florence, secretary to two popes, and a zealous but liberal Catholic, in a letter to Leonard Arotin, bore ample testimony of the extraordinary powers and virtues of Jerome whom he emphatically styles, A prodigious man!

http://www.biblebelievers.com/foxes/fox108.htm
Persecution of Zisca

    Some of the soldiers ravished the daughters of a worthy Protestant before his face, and then tortured him to death. A minister and his wife they tied back to back and burnt. Another minister they hung upon a cross beam, and making a fire under him, broiled him to death. A gentleman they hacked into small pieces, and they filled a young man's mouth with gunpowder, and setting fire to it, blew his head to pieces.

    As their principal rage was directed against the clergy, they took a pious Protestant minister, and tormenting him daily for a month together, in the following manner, making their cruelty regular, systematic, and progressive.

    They placed him amidst them, and made him the subject of their derision and mockery, during a whole day's entertainment, trying to exhaust his patience, but in vain, for he bore the whole with true Christian fortitude. They spit in his face, pulled his nose, and pinched him in most parts of his body. He was hunted like a wild beast, until ready to expire with fatigue. They made him run the gauntlet between two ranks of them, each striking him with a twig. He was beat with their fists. He was beat with ropes. They scourged him with wires. He was beat with cudgels. They tied him up by the heels with his head downwards, until the blood started out of his nose, mouth, etc. They hung him by the right arm until it was dislocated, and then had it set again. The same was repeated with his left arm. Burning papers dipped in oil were placed between his fingers and toes. His flesh was torn with red-hot pincers. He was put to the rack. They pulled off the nails of his right hand. The same repeated with his left hand. He was bastinadoed on his feet. A slit was made in his right ear. The same repeated on his left ear. His nose was slit. They whipped him through the town upon an ass. They made several incisions in his flesh. They pulled off the toe nails of his right foot. The same they repeated with his left foot. He was tied up by the loins, and suspended for a considerable time. The teeth of his upper jaw were pulled out. The same was repeated with his lower jaw. Boiling lead was poured upon his fingers. The same was repeated with his toes. A knotted cord was twisted about his forehead in such a manner as to force out his eyes.

    During the whole of these horrid cruelties, particular care was taken that his wounds should not mortify, and not to injure him mortally until the last day, when the forcing out of his eyes proved his death.

http://www.biblebelievers.com/foxes/fox116.htm
The Rev. George Marsh

On Palm Sunday he underwent a second examination, and Mr.

Marsh much lamented that his fear should at all have induced him to prevaricate, and to seek his safety, as long as he did not openly deny Christ; and he again cried more earnestly to God for strength that he might not be overcome by the subtleties of those who strove to overrule the purity of his faith. He underwent three examinations before Dr. Coles, who, finding him steadfast in the Protestant faith, began to read his sentence; but he was interrupted by the chancellor, who prayed the bishop to stay before it was too late. The priest then prayed for Mr. Marsh, but the latter, upon being again solicited to recant, said he durst not deny his Savior Christ, lest he lose His everlasting mercy, and so obtain eternal death. The bishop then proceeded in the sentence. He was committed to a dark dungeon, and lay deprived of the consolation of any one (for all were afraid to relieve or communicate with him) until the day appointed came that he should suffer. The sheriffs of the city, Amry and Couper, with their officers, went to the north gate, and took out Mr. George Marsh, who walked all the way with the Book in his hand, looking upon the same, whence the people said, "This man does not go to his death as a thief, nor as one that deserveth to die."

When he came to the place of execution without the city, near Spittal=Boughton, Mr. Cawdry, deputy chamberlain of Chester, showed Mr. Marsh a writing under a great seal, saying that it was a pardon for him if he would recant. He answered that he would gladly accept the same did it not tend to pluck him from God.

After that, he began to speak to the people showing the cause of his death, and would have exhorted them to stick unto Christ, but one of the sheriffs prevented him. Kneeling down, he then said his prayers, put off his clothes unto his shirt, and was chained to the post, having a number of fagots under him, and a thing made like a firkin, with pitch and tar in it, over his head. The fire being unskilfully made, and the wind driving it in eddies, he suffered great extremity, which notwithstanding he bore with Christian fortitude.

When he had been a long time tormented in the fire without moving, having his flesh so broiled and puffed up that they who stood before him could not see the chain wherewith he was fastened, and therefore supposed that he had been dead, suddenly he spread abroad his arms, saying, "Father of heaven have mercy upon me!" and so yielded his spirit into the hands of the Lord. Upon this, many of the people said he was a martyr, and died gloriously patient. This caused the bishop shortly after to make a sermon in the cathedral church, and therein he affirmed, that the said 'Marsh was a heretic, burnt as such, and is a firebrand in hell.' Mr. Marsh suffered April 24, 1555.

William Flower

On April 24, St. Mark's eve, he was brought to the place of martyrdom, in St. Margaret's churchyard, Westminster, where the fact was committed: and there coming to the stake, he prayed to Almighty God, made a confession of his faith, and forgave all the world.

This done, his hand was held up against the stake, and struck off, his left hand being fastened behind him. Fire was then set to him, and he burning therein, cried with a loud voice, "O Thou Son of God receive my soul!" three times. His speech being now taken from him, he spoke no more, but notwithstanding he lifted up the stump with his other arm as long as he could.

Thus he endured the extremity of the fire, and was cruelly tortured, for the few fagots that were brought being insufficient to burn him they were compelled to strike him down into the fire, where lying along upon the ground, his lower part was consumed in the fire, whilst his upper part was little injured, his tongue moving in his mouth for a considerable time.

http://www.biblebelievers.com/foxes/fox116.htm
Mrs. Prest

"Do you not destroy your souls, when you teach the people to worship idols, stocks, and stones, the works of men's hands? and to worship a false God of your own making of a piece of bread, and teach that the pope is God's vicar, and hath power to forgive sins? and that there is a purgatory, when God's Son hath by His passion purged all? and say you make God and sacrifice Him, when Christ's body was a sacrifice once for all? Do you not teach the people to number their sins in your ears, and say they will be damned if they confess not all; when God's Word saith, Who can number his sins? Do you not promise them trentals and dirges and Masses for souls, and sell your prayers for money, and make them buy pardons, and trust to such foolish inventions of your imaginations? Do you not altogether act against God? Do you not teach us to pray upon beads, and to pray unto saints, and say they can pray for us? Do you not make holy water and holy bread to fray devils? Do you not do a thousand more abominations? And yet you say, you come for my profit, and to save my soul. No, no, one hath saved me. Farewell, you with your salvation."

When sentence was read, condemning her to the flames, she lifted up her voice and praised God, adding, "This day have I found that which I have long sought." When they tempted her to recant, "That will I not, (said she) God forbid that I should lose the life eternal, for this carnal and short life. I will never turn from my heavenly husband to my earthly husband; from the fellowship of angels to mortal children; and if my husband and children be faithful, then am I theirs. God is my father, God is my mother, God is my sister, my brother, my kinsman; God is my friend, most faithful."

Being delivered to the sheriff, she was led by the officer to the place of execution, without the walls of Exeter, called Sothenhey, where again the superstitious priests assaulted her. While they were tying her to the stake, she continued earnestly to exclaim "God be merciful to me, a sinner!" Patiently enduring the devouring conflagration, she was consumed to ashes, and thus ended a life which in unshaken fidelity to the cause of Christ, was not surpassed by that of any preceding martyr.

Peter

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Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Mohammedanism
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2009, 12:59:08 PM »
After being directed to this video today I decided to split this off into a separate topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjxuKmEWuNM

The original post of this thread struck me in a moment, after some time had passed for "50 years in the Roman Church" by Chiniquy, to sink in, and I hurriedly posted a number of points off of the top of my head.
I have barely considered it since, but I am sure there are many more parallels that can be drawn, a couple in the video of this post.

As ppsimmons points out both religions believe folks are born into their religion or enter as infants. Muslims a simply born into it with Roman Catholics believing one becomes a Christian through infant baptism.

Also both are religions of works that believe men make our own way to heaven through good deeds. That rather than salvation being a gift of God that we instead earn our way into salvation.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

This rather than understanding that good deeds and works are the RESULT of salvation, NEVER the path to it:

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Peter

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2009, 02:39:07 PM »
Imperialistic conquest for God.

One of the reasons we know the Crusades were not of God and got so out of hand (even to cannibalism) is that men falsely believed, or pretended to believe, that they had authority from God, to promise to the men that went on the Crusades, permanent absolution from sin.
How would one expect unregenerate men to behave if they believed they had gotten such a deal from God? Rape, pillage and plunder. Just like the Muslims in Jihad.

4:74 (Y. Ali) Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2009, 08:33:32 AM »
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon


resistingrexmundi

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2009, 08:51:56 AM »
I am not sure if anyone has covered this point yet. One of the most profound and perhaps fundemental similarities between Islam and Catholicism is the manner in which they spread. If one considers the use of pre-existing pagan rituals and holidays to help facilitate conversion more easily among pagans the similarities are impossible to miss. December 25, for example, was the birthday of a pagan sun-god before the RCC took it for Christmas. Ramadan was a pilgrimage practiced before and DURING Muhammad's lifetime by pagans. The veneration of the dead is even mentioned in the OT as a dispicable act and yet the RCC did not mind hi-jacking that too in order to spread their dogma. The strongest reason these two spread like wildfire is probably the fact that they cator to the natural inclinations of a sinful heart. Justifying killing, torture, rape, and a variety of deplorable practices to spread or maintain the institution that gave birth to such indoctrination.

We also know from the scritures that worship of the sun, moon and stars are strictly prohibited by God. Yet the inclusion of the rituals of sun worship by the RCC and the direct connection of the Meccan moon deity al-ileh, which was later shortened to Allah, covers all three of those bases. Pagans were willing to "convert" because it really required little change on their part. It would seem that these two world institutions are inseperably linked through pagan worship. They pray in like manner with vain repetition and they both institutionalize the worship of God, effectively turning what should be a joy and a spiritual boon into a burden. While they disagree on many doctrinal points the spirit that governs the upper echelon of these two bodies works in like manner and Jesus said a tree is always known by its' fruit. I am not indicating that all catholics are heathens, pagans, or anti-christ. However it is a fine line to walk to salvation if one does not seek the only way given to us through His word and not foul doctrine.

God bless
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

Peter

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2009, 09:51:27 AM »
We also know from the scritures that worship of the sun, moon and stars are strictly prohibited by God. Yet the inclusion of the rituals of sun worship by the RCC...

In what part of RCC dogma are Roman Catholics called to a ritual of sun worship?

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2009, 10:38:25 AM »
Catholics today may not worship the sun directly but Constantine was a known sun worshipper. He made Christmas Dec. 25, which is the birth day of a Roman sun deity. He commisioned a mosaic of Jesus depicted as the unconquered sun with the face in his likeness. He had the sun implemented into the coin used during his time and was responsible, if I am not mistaken, with naming the day Christians worshipped Sunday. These things hardly make a catholic a sun worshipper but the same is true of muslims and the moon. The point is that their ritual revolve around pagan practices of sun and moon worship.
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

Peter

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2009, 01:53:03 PM »
Catholics today may not worship the sun directly but Constantine was a known sun worshipper.

He was a "converted" (perhaps nominally, some suggest not) polythiest.

He made Christmas Dec. 25, which is the birth day of a Roman sun deity. He commisioned a mosaic of Jesus depicted as the unconquered sun with the face in his likeness. He had the sun implemented into the coin used during his time and was responsible, if I am not mistaken, with naming the day Christians worshipped Sunday. These things hardly make a catholic a sun worshipper......

That's right. Some distance from: "Yet the inclusion of the rituals of sun worship by the RCC..."

Somewhat beyond exaggeration. That was the only reason for my pointing it out.
Roman Catholics do not worship the sun, but rather the Son.

This thread is more about the parallels between the RCC and Islam rather than equivalences.

..... but the same is true of muslims and the moon. The point is that their ritual revolve around pagan practices of sun and moon worship.

Roman Catholic "rituals revolve around" the worship of Jesus Christ (in conjunction with a ton of other dangerous heresy).
Though Constantine's possible reluctance, in divorcing himself completely from the sun, certainly not without basis regarding what may appear to be the many graphic images of the sun in the RCC.

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2009, 03:37:22 PM »
Perhaps I should have been more clear. The broader point that I was making is that both used pre-existing pagan practices to help ease an unsuspecting nation into conversion. A good example would be the pilgrimage made by muslims today in comparison to the heathen practice it was taken from. And the reverence of the dead by the RCC being borrowed from pagan practices. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough.

God bless
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

Peter

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2009, 09:39:29 AM »
From the Catholic forum link in the OP on this subject. I cherrypicked comments of participants. Go to the link and explore for yourself.
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=95169

"Should heretics be burned for their heresy?

I was rather shocked in my research to come across Exsurge Domine (1520) which seems to proclaim ex cathedra that "we condemn, reprobate, and reject completely ... [other things rejected] ... that heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit."

Could some knowledgeable Catholic please enlighten me on this?"
__________________________

And also, what is the consequence? If you say that the burning of heretics is against God's will, you are condemned, reprobated, and rejected completely by the Catholic Church, at least at the time, if not still now. What does that mean though? Excommunication? A slap on the hand?
__________________________

I would say that there were a few times in the past where burning heretics at the stake were justified, thus I agree with the Holy Father that it was not always wrong to execute heretics in the past.
________________________

In the bull Exsurge Domine, Leo X condemned 41 of Luther's theses. The Holy Father said of those condemned theses: "All and each of the above mentioned articles or errors, so to speak, as set before you, we condemn, disapprove, and entirely reject as respectively heretical, or scandalous, or false, or offensive to pious ears, or seductive of simple minds, and in opposition to Catholic truth."

"Haereticos comburi est contra voluntatem Spiritus" (Pope Leo X, Exsurge Domine, 33: DS 1483), which means "That heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit" was among the propositions condemned.

Therefore, a Catholic cannot hold that the execution of heretics was always immoral in the past.
_______________________

We must interpret Pope Leo X's Exsurge Domine in light of the the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which states:

'Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."' (Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 2267)
_____________________

Are you saying that heretics should never have been burned at the stake?
...........................

Well if they ever were burned at the stake. and it was officially approved by the catholic church i would have to say it is good. But that seems like not the case. I do not beleive it was ever part of the official magisterium of the Catholic church. correct me if im wrong and please quote.
____________________________

Spread of heresy can be a greater threat than most physical ones. Mass spread of heresy can lead to mass damnation of souls to hell forever.

Before it's asked of me, I personally agree with the Popes and Church on this matter.
__________________________

I voted yes, but I meant toasted (lightly), not burned.
_______________________




Oh well, you get the drift. Please visit the link for yourself. There was a poll conducted in the OP.
6 votes out of 45 were in favor of burning heretics at the stake. 11.76%

yonah33

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2010, 06:14:08 AM »
Catholics today may not worship the sun directly but Constantine was a known sun worshipper. He made Christmas Dec. 25, which is the birth day of a Roman sun deity. He commisioned a mosaic of Jesus depicted as the unconquered sun with the face in his likeness. He had the sun implemented into the coin used during his time and was responsible, if I am not mistaken, with naming the day Christians worshipped Sunday. These things hardly make a catholic a sun worshipper but the same is true of muslims and the moon. The point is that their ritual revolve around pagan practices of sun and moon worship.

This combined with The False Prophet is riveting testimony to the reality we face. And there's something else. The United States just confirmed a new Supreme Court Justice. Another Catholic. There are now 6 Catholics and 3 Jews on the high court. No Protestants.  :o

How the Vatican created Islam. The astonishing story from an ex-Jesuit priest, Alberto Rivera,
which was told to him by Cardinal Bea while he was at the Vatican.
By Alberto Rivera | cloakanddagger.de
http://www.remnantofgod.org/books/docs/How-the-Vatican-Created-Islam.pdf


Esteban

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2010, 07:46:03 PM »
There is mention of the great battles against Islam in Eliss Skolfield's interesting book about the Battle of Vienna when a small Christian force defeated a much greater muslim one. He does not mention that the Christians were ALL Catholics nor that Protestants fought on the side of the Muslims. He also failed to mention the great sea Battle of Lepanto when the (again) overwhelmingly outnumbered Catholics fought off an intended Muslim invasion of Italy while the Protestants in Northern Europe prayed for an Islamic victory. If they had succeeded the whole of Europe would be muslim by now. The truth is that the Catholics are the only Christians to have fought Islam. It was the Catholics who drove the Muslims out of France and out of Spain without any assistance. Perhaps the Catholics and the Orthodox (the two candles of Revelation) will have the major role in the future.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 08:17:52 PM by Esteban »

amos45

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2010, 09:03:57 PM »

Greetings Esteban, & welcome to the forum.

It is not my intention to upset you, or any one else in any way, (my comments are with regard to history alone) but are you also aware that there is a certain amount of evidence to support the fact that the Pope of the day, was responsible for uniting the Arab nations into a central Islamic religion?

The Papacy had apparently been trying to get into Jerusalem for some time & were unable to enter because of opposition from certain quarters, so when Mahammed showed interest in most religions that he came in contact with, he was encouraged to study the bible. As a result, we now have the Islamic system, with some spattering of the Bible mixed into the Koran.

Things aren't always what they may seem, as you have shown by pointing out the Protestant position with regard to the Crusades.

Christian greetings,

Amos


Peter

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2010, 12:14:59 PM »
There is mention of the great battles against Islam in Eliss Skolfield's interesting book about the Battle of Vienna when a small Christian force defeated a much greater muslim one.

Hi Esteban and welcome to the forum! :)
I hope you can get past my rather direct approach, but I don't like typing a lot of fluff.

Same is true of the Battle of Poitier (Tours) too!
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=557.0

He does not mention that the Christians were ALL Catholics .......

While some goals of the Crusades may have been noble, how would men be expected to behave, as a result of being offered the false promise of absolution for life for becoming engaged?

"If those who go thither lose their lives on land or sea during the journey, or in battle against the pagans, their sins will at once be forgiven; I grant this through the power of God conferred on me... 11"
http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Hist/H-0501.htm

Men declaring God's judgment in such matters sound familiar?
First drop of blood spilled by an Islamic "martyr" (engaged in imperialistic conquest) .....

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Promised ablution for shedding one's blood during imperialistic conquest did highlight yet another parallel to add to the original post.

Peter

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2010, 01:42:33 PM »
....... nor that Protestants fought on the side of the Muslims.

That's interesting. Perhaps you could help us with your sources for this.
Certainly the RCC slaughter of Jews during the Crusades is no secret. Nor RCC slaughter of Christians throughout the Reformation.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=484.0

He also failed to mention the great sea Battle of Lepanto when the (again) overwhelmingly outnumbered Catholics fought off an intended Muslim invasion of Italy while the Protestants in Northern Europe prayed for an Islamic victory.

Little surprise that folks facing the prospects of being burned at the stake for the religious beliefs might consider the RCC perpetrators an enemy.

If they had succeeded the whole of Europe would be muslim by now. The truth is that the Catholics are the only Christians to have fought Islam.

Is that why the Pope kisses the very book that declares
Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!



Is that why "infallible" Vatican Council doctrine declares
"3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God..."
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=600.0

of a stand-alone 7th century cult whose adherents are required to believe ...
Surah 4:157  That THEY SAID (in boast), "WE KILLED CHRIST JESUS the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear to them,... FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT:-

Peter

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2010, 01:44:47 PM »
It was the Catholics who drove the Muslims out of France and out of Spain without any assistance. Perhaps the Catholics and the Orthodox (the two candles of Revelation) .......

Just because men are willing to declare something (two candlesticks) doesn't make it so.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=15.0
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=69.0

In the same verse the two are also described as two "olive trees". How do you exegete the rest of the verse?
Who are the two olive trees? The Roman Church the "good" olive tree and the Orthodox the "wild" olive tree?
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1582.0

........ will have the major role in the future.

On what basis do you make this claim? The Roman Church is skulking away with it's tail between it's legs.
Protestants all over the world are in the front lines of this 1400 year Islamic war against the non-Islamic world.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=624.0

In stark contrast the Pope had the global spotlight - in this information age - but rejected an unprecedented historical opportunity to explain to Muslims all over the world, that Islam is antichrist thereby instigating a real discussion.
What does the RCC do instead? Kiss the Quran with the Vatican council declarations further encouraging Muslims to remain immersed in the spirit of antichrist.

Esteban

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2010, 03:16:58 PM »
Hi sources for Protestants assisting the Ottoman Turks are not difficult to find, I quote from Wikipaedia:

"Protestants and other anti-Habsburg Kuruc forces, led by Imre Thököly (who was Protestant but died under the protection of the Ottomans in Turkey), were reinforced with a significant force from the Ottomans, who recognized Thököly as King of "Upper Hungary" (eastern part of today's Slovakia and parts of today's northeastern Hungary, which he had earlier taken by force of arms from the Habsburgs). This support went so far as explicitly promising the "Kingdom of Vienna" to the Hungarians if it fell into Ottoman hands".

The Polish Christians and others who fought under Jan Sobieski were solidly Catholic. I can find proof of tens of thousands of Catholics dieing whilst fighting Islam but not one Protestant. When the Battle of Lepanto was won, over 10,000 Christians who had been enslaved (including Protestants) were released from the Muslim vessels.  Are any of you aware of the thousands of Catholics who perished at Protestant hands? Many were 'hung, drawn and quartered' that is, hung but cut down whilst alive and conscious, then disembowelled and then having their limbs and genitals cut off" - and many could have avoided this fate quite by conversion.

Peter

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2010, 04:02:54 PM »
Hi sources for Protestants assisting the Ottoman Turks are not difficult to find, I quote from Wikipaedia:

"Protestants and other anti-Habsburg Kuruc forces, led by Imre Thököly (who was Protestant but died under the protection of the Ottomans in Turkey), were reinforced with a significant force from the Ottomans, who recognized Thököly as King of "Upper Hungary" (eastern part of today's Slovakia and parts of today's northeastern Hungary, which he had earlier taken by force of arms from the Habsburgs). This support went so far as explicitly promising the "Kingdom of Vienna" to the Hungarians if it fell into Ottoman hands".

The Polish Christians and others who fought under Jan Sobieski were solidly Catholic. I can find proof of tens of thousands of Catholics dieing whilst fighting Islam but not one Protestant. When the Battle of Lepanto was won, over 10,000 Christians who had been enslaved (including Protestants) were released from the Muslim vessels.  Are any of you aware of the thousands of Catholics who perished at Protestant hands? Many were 'hung, drawn and quartered' that is, hung but cut down whilst alive and conscious, then disembowelled and then having their limbs and genitals cut off" - and many could have avoided this fate quite by conversion.

Sometimes even Christians get tired of turning the other cheek.
But you seem to want to have it both ways. You desire to excuse away reprobate behavior of the Roman Church, yet on the other hand want to condemn non-Roman Catholics for engaging in similar unchristian behavior - or are you seeking to justify it that way?
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=90.0

You earlier fantasized about the Roman Church somehow engaging Islam with a "...major role in the future...".
Do you imagine the Roman Church engaging Islam the same way that they did last time?

Esteban

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2010, 05:00:59 PM »

Sometimes even Christians get tired of turning the other cheek.
But you seem to want to have it both ways. You desire to excuse away reprobate behavior of the Roman Church, yet on the other hand want to condemn non-Roman Catholics for engaging in similar unchristian behavior - or are you seeking to justify it that way?
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=90.0

You earlier fantasized about the Roman Church somehow engaging Islam with a "...major role in the future...".
Do you imagine the Roman Church engaging Islam the same way that they did last time?



Sorry, Peter, I am genuinely confused. I was attempting to 'put the record straight' and not to defend un-Christian behaviour by any 'side'. When did I fantasise? Mahomet is responsible for Islam and gives Christianity no credit for it, he borrowed from many texts from many religions in composing his koran. I have no illusions about Islam and the accusation that the Catholic Church is somehow responsible for Islam cannot be seriously supported. It is part of the 'anything bad must be the Catholic Church's fault' and 'anything good cannot arise from the Catholic Church' mentality. The fanatical muslims were calling for the death of the Pope during his recent visit to the UK for 'insulting Islam' at Regensberg. Two would be Arab assassins were deported from Italy recently. A muslim attempted to kill John Paul.
The Protestants have never anywhere fought Islam, the Catholics have lost probably hundreds of thousands in that fight.
This is historically indisputable.

Peter

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2010, 10:19:03 AM »

Sometimes even Christians get tired of turning the other cheek.
But you seem to want to have it both ways. You desire to excuse away reprobate behavior of the Roman Church, yet on the other hand want to condemn non-Roman Catholics for engaging in similar unchristian behavior - or are you seeking to justify it that way?
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=90.0

You earlier fantasized about the Roman Church somehow engaging Islam with a "...major role in the future...".
Do you imagine the Roman Church engaging Islam the same way that they did last time?

Sorry, Peter, I am genuinely confused.

If you answer to each point raised in answer to your post, in order, things might become a bit less confusing. I hope you can do that after responding to this post. Then we can address the additional points and questions you raised in this latter post.

I was attempting to 'put the record straight' and not to defend un-Christian behaviour by any 'side'. When did I fantasise?

I included the snippet from your post in order to show you what fantasy I was making reference to. Namely...

........ will have the major role in the future.

On what basis do you make this claim? The Roman Church is skulking away with it's tail between it's legs.
Protestants all over the world are in the front lines of this 1400 year Islamic war against the non-Islamic world.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=624.0

In stark contrast the Pope had the global spotlight - in this information age - but rejected an unprecedented historical opportunity to explain to Muslims all over the world, that Islam is antichrist thereby instigating a real discussion.
What does the RCC do instead? Kiss the Quran with the Vatican council declarations further encouraging Muslims to remain immersed in the spirit of antichrist.

Peter

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2010, 02:20:16 PM »
Please address all the prior points posted to your first post, before jumping into this one, to reduce confusion.

Mahomet is responsible for Islam and gives Christianity no credit for it, ......

Though perhaps he should have since so much of it was inspired by his good friend and X-christian Jabr. In fact, so often did Mohammed get a "revelation" shortly after one of his long sessions with Jabr, that the local comic nickname for Jabr among the Quraish became "holy spirit". Mohammed even had to give himself a specific "revelation" in a feeble attempt at damage control.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=452.0

...... he borrowed from many texts ......

Though not on his own since he was illiterate. Lots of Hebrew and Arabic fables too.

....... from many religions in composing his koran.

Sabians, Gnostics and Zoroastrians to name a few.

I have no illusions about Islam .....

Then how do you remain in an institution responsible for encouraging them to remain on their path?

...... and the accusation that the Catholic Church is somehow responsible for Islam cannot be seriously supported.

Indeed. Someone recently sent me an email suggesting that Jesuits invented Islam. I replied that it was pure poppycock. Mohammed's family was waaay into the occult. Mohammed and 4 of his cousins were so heavily into the 2nd century occult cult of the Sabians that many Quraish referred to him as "the Sabian".
Later he was meditating in a cave and rightly identified that a jinn-demon met him in that cave and tried to squeeze the life out of him 3 times. His wife talked him out of the demon angle and thus Islam was pretty much born.
(Coptic Priest on the subject  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpsWnbApBNw )

The "revelations" were inspired by Satan, friends wives and concubines, but many were simply self-serving licenses to engage in murder, rape of prisoners, and theft of their property.

It is part of the 'anything bad must be the Catholic Church's fault' and 'anything good cannot arise from the Catholic Church' mentality.

In my view there is no shortage of reasons that folks hold that view, within the church. It has been my experience that the historical behavior of the RCC has provided one of the major stumbling blocks keeping Muslims from the Word.

The fanatical muslims were calling for the death of the Pope during his recent visit to the UK for 'insulting Islam' at Regensberg.

The Pope committed a faux pas by quoting a 14th century document, but quickly divorced himself from the words, once the controversy began. "As for the opinion of the Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus which he quoted during his Regensburg talk, the Holy Father did not mean, nor does he mean, to make that opinion his own in any way."
Ultimately demonstrating his submission to Islam by bowing to Mecca from inside a mosque.


Two would be Arab assassins were deported from Italy recently. A muslim attempted to kill John Paul.
The Protestants have never anywhere fought Islam, the Catholics have lost probably hundreds of thousands in that fight.
This is historically indisputable.

Unfortunately, as your post also expresses, the RCC seems never to have understood the power of the tools God gave us to engage the enemy with.
Though more likely they well understand, but kissed the Quran and bowed to Mecca from inside a mosque, out of fear of persecution.

Why not try looking at the present day reality. Start by exegeting the Vatican Council declaration with us.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=600.0

Peter

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Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2010, 12:52:16 PM »
...... and the accusation that the Catholic Church is somehow responsible for Islam cannot be seriously supported.

Indeed. Someone recently sent me an email suggesting that Jesuits invented Islam. I replied that it was pure poppycock.

And so shortly after I wrote this, a couple of guys tried to advance the same suggestion, from the same source, without supporting it.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1870.0