Author Topic: Mohammed On Lying  (Read 220 times)

Peter

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Mohammed On Lying
« on: February 02, 2010, 11:19:47 AM »
When all those around Mohammed saw that he was receiving "revelations", so shortly after spending those long hours with Mohammed's good friend and x-"Christian" Jabr, the local nickname for Jabr became "holy spirit". This compelled Mohammed to create a special surah in a feeble attempt at damage control from the obvious plagiarism.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=452.0

Sura 16.103 We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.

Thus we can add liar to the list of attributes of Mohammed, since the Syriac word Injeel is just one out of about a hundred words in the Quran that are not Arabic.


But then for someone to believe Mohammed wasn't a liar, they would have to believe his tall and very fanciful tale that he rode on a flying animal to Jerusalem, Heaven and back to Mecca by morning.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1253.0

For those that believe that - which should include all Muslims because Ibn Abbas in the Hadith confirms that it was an actual event and not a dream - can I interest you in a magic lamp or a flying carpet?
In the Zoroastrian scriptures a flying camel was supposed to be what their mythical prophet traveled back and forth from the place where his immortal ancestors lived. Sound familiar? And then there's always Pegasus.


Mohammed on Lying

Site by Iraqi former Muslim.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Index/L/lying.html

LYING

see also DECEPTION.

The morality of lying is one of the most confusing aspects of Islamic thought and, as a result, creates the impression that whether a person is truthful, or deceitful, depends entirely on the ethics of the situation.

At first glance, Islam appears to place great importance on the truth:

And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is). (YA, al-Baqarah 2:42)

There are TWO categories of lies which are not tolerated in Islam:

1. A lie against Allah.

Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against Allah, or saith, "I have received inspiration," when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, "I can reveal the like of what Allah hath revealed"? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death! - the angels stretch forth their hands, (saying), "Yield up your souls: this day shall ye receive your reward,- a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against Allah, and scornfully to reject of His signs!" Sura 6:93

2. A Lie against Muhammad

Narrated Al-Mughira: I heard the Prophet saying, "Ascribing false things to me is not like ascribing false things to anyone else. Whosoever tells a lie against me intentionally then surely let him occupy his seat in Hell-Fire." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 2.378, cf. 1.106-108)

Lying to, or about, fellow Muslims is also a sin according to the Traditions.

Cases in which lying IS permitted

One of the most interesting moral dilemmas for Islam are the cases in which lying is permitted

The Traditions tell us that there are three instances where deception can be used:

Humaid b. 'Abd al-Rahman b. 'Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of 'Uqba b. Abu Mu'ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good. Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them). (Sahih Muslim, Hadith number 6303-05; see also Sahih al-Bukhari 3.857)

More information is provided by William Muir's "Life of Mahomet", Volume I, footnote 88:

The common Moslem belief is that it is allowable to tell a falsehood on four occasions:

1st, to save one's life;
2nd, to effect a peace or reconciliation;
3rd, to persuade a woman;
4th, on the occasion of a journey or expedition.

To save one's life

The first is borne out by Mahomet's express sanction. Ammar ibn Yasir was sorely persecuted by the pagans of Mecca, and denied the faith for his deliverance. The Prophet approved of his conduct: - "If they do this again, then repeat the same recantation to them again." Katib al Wackidi; p. 227 ". Another tradition preserved in the family of Yasir, is as follows: - "The idolators seized Ammar, and they let him not go until he had abused Mahomet and spoken well of their gods. He then repaired to the Prophet, who asked of him what had happened." - "Evil, oh Prophet of the Lord! I was not let go until I had abused thee, and spoken well of their gods." - "But how," replied Mahomet, "dost thou find thine own heart?" - "Secure and steadfast in the faith." - "Then," said Mahomet, "if they repeat the same, do thou too repeat the same." Ibid. Mahomet also said that Ammar's lie was better than Abu Jahl's truth.

To effect a peace or reconciliation

The second is directly sanctioned by the following tradition:- "That person is not a liar who makes peace between two people, and speaks good words to do away their quarrel, although they should be lies. Mishcat, vol ii. p.427.

To persuade a woman

As to the third, we have a melancholy instance that Mahomet did not think it wrong to make false promises to his wives, in the matter of Mary his Egyptian maid.

[This article provides more information on this incident.]

On the occasion of a journey or expedition

And regarding the fourth, it was his constant habit in projecting expeditions (excepting only that to Tabuk) to conceal his intentions, and to give out that he was about to proceed in another direction from the true one. Hishami, p. 392; Katib al Wackidi, p. 133 ".

What was Muhammad's attitude towards lying?

Muhammad treated truth and deception according his own style of situational ethics. Muhammad condoned, and actually permitted, lying to further his goals:

For example,

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369, cf. the article on Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf for further details)

Muhammad clearly condoned dishonesty, as well as murder, when it suited his purposes.

Lying today

    Imam Abu Hammid Ghazali says: "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible." (Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745)

Note that Al-Ghazali is one of the most famous and respected Muslim theologians of all time.

Articles which are exploring this topic further:

    * Understanding Dishonesty and Deceit in Islam
    * Is Lying a Sin, or Just a Good Strategy?

One of the foundational theological problems for Islam in this matter is the fact that Allah prides himself to be "the best of deceivers" ("l 'Imran 3:54, Al-Anfal 8:30). How then can deception be negative and morally wrong for Muslims when it is a matter of pride for Allah, the god of Islam? For a detailed discussion of this matter, see Allah - The Greatest Deceiver of them All and further articles listed under DECEPTION.

One specific instance of a Muslim missionary using deception to make Islam look more acceptable to a Western audience: Sunni Muslims and Taqiyyah.

One should always be very cautious and careful regarding debating Muslims, as many see no problem to use lies and deception on those occasions. Oftentimes, they do not understand dialogue and debate meetings as an open and honest exchange of convictions, but it is part of the Islamic war against unbelievers in another form, and "war is deceit" as Muhammad said. A couple of examples are given in these articles:

    * Nadir Ahmed: Taqiyya Incarnate
    * Jesus as God's Son in Luke-Acts: Responding to the Distortions of a Muslim Taqiyyist

And deception (a.k.a. the wise choice of words) also features in the high-profile "dialogue" initiated by a letter of 138 Muslim scholars to the leaders of all Christian churches, see the detailed analysis The Truth About "A Common Word" and other material provided in our overview page on "A Common Word Between Us And You".

For further implications and current reality, see e.g.

    * The Islamic Agenda And Its Blueprints
    * The Peace of Jerusalem and Yasser Arafat
    * Islamic Law On Female Circumcision
    * Civilization of Deception

Two articles giving details regarding a particularly blatant case of Muslim lies for political expediency:

    * The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem
    * The Modern Destruction of the Temple Mount (this is criminal!)

One particular deception that resulted in great destruction and the killing of innocent people:

    * The Muhammad Cartoon Hoax (for further discussion of the cartoon issue, see Is Islam above Criticism?)

Sunni Muslims often criticize the Shi'a for their use of Taqiyya, or not showing their faith openly. In other words, if a Shi'a Muslim's life is in danger, he may lie as long as he holds true to Ali in his heart.

Muslim (and other) Hoaxes

Peter

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Re: Mohammed On Lying
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2011, 12:55:45 PM »
http://prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_16_Mein_Kampf.Islam

Ishaq:365/Tabari VII:94 "Muhammad bin Maslamah said, 'O Messenger, we shall have to tell lies.' 'Say what you like.' Muhammad replied. 'You are absolved, free to say whatever you must.'" The moment this man walked out of the room, Muhammad must have doubled over laughing. The stooge was willing to commit murder yet he was concerned about lying. And while that's hilarious in a macabre sort of way, consider the value of Muhammad’s absolution. Since he had just approved lying, it couldn't have been worth the air it took to offer it. But Muhammad’s assassin believed him. And that is why false prophets and corrupt doctrines are so diabolical. Muslim militants still believe him.

While the circumstances are as bizarre as the orders are vile, we do have another first. Islam was the first "religion" to command its faithful to murder and deceive. But since that's a serious charge, let's triple-check our sources. Bukhari:V5B59N369 "Allah’s Apostle said, 'Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle.' Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslamah got up saying, 'O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like me to kill him.' The Prophet said, 'Yes.' Maslamah said, 'Then allow me to say false things in order to deceive him.' The Prophet said, 'You may say such things.'"

Peter

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Re: Mohammed On Lying
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2011, 05:15:18 PM »