BROTHER PETE    |   home
Islam-Christian Forum
Part 1  Part 2
ISLAM 101   |   JIHAD CONQUEST TERRORISM   |   MECCA   |   UNFORGIVABLE SIN OF SHIRK   |   THE HAJJ AND UMRAH   |   ANTI-ZIONISM   |   BANU QURAYZA MASSACRE   |   THE SABIANS & ISLAM   |   SIMON MAGUS, GNOSTICISM, THE EBIONITES & ISLAM   |   MUHAMMAD'S NIGHT JOURNEY   |   HAGAR & ISHMAEL   |   CHILDREN OF THE FLESH   |   THE TWELVE SONS / TRIBES OF ISHMAEL   |   ORIGINS OF ISLAM   |   BACA, BAKKAH & MECCA, MAKKAH   |   VOLUNTARY DHIMMITUDE   |   YHWH, YAHWEH, YESHUA, YAHSHUA   |   OLDEST MOSQUE QIBLA   |   ISLAM'S FABLES & FANTASIES   |   MUHAMMAD'S CONUNDRUM   |   QURAN INSPIRATION   |   WHO WAS CRUCIFIED?   |   YHWH MANIFEST IN FLESH   |   ISLAM IS THE OPPOSITE   |   SPIRIT OF GOD   |   OLD TESTAMENT VIOLENCE   |   INTERFAITH RELIGIOUS PLURALISM   |   BIBLE IN THE QURAN   |   SCRIPTURES OR QURAN CORRUPTED?   |   FREE TRACTS FOR MUSLIMS   |   QURAN 666   |   RESOURCES   |   CONTACT US

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SCRIPTURES OR QURAN CORRUPTED?

What inspires folks, to desire to believe the scriptures were so "corrupted", that they wish it was an excuse to reject the Gospel?

The whole subject of the Gospel is the crucifixion, death and resurrection of the Messiah, who saves repentant "born again" believers who have faith in His shed blood from carrying our sins to the grave, and thus suffering the "second death" that separates us from God forever.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The Messiah's Hebrew name from long before He was manifest on earth is "Yahshua", which means "Yahweh saves", "rescues" or "delivers". After the Messiah was made manifest we were able to understand that rescue or delivery is from sin.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

There has obviously not been a single Christian, over more than 1,900 years that has denied the whole subject of the Gospel.

Yet long after the Gospel had been translated into every popular language, and had been being read all over the known world for centuries, a false prophet arose in the remote southwest Arabian desert - about 1200 kilometers away from the Holy Land - who proclaimed the  EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Thus seven centuries after the crucifixion of the Messiah Muhammad filled his followers with complete resolve as to what to DISbelieve. A religion with a fundamental of what to DENY. Muhammad's followers must reject the very blood that would save them as an article of their faith in Muhammad - as adherents of the only anti-another-religion, religion. Islam is to Christianity as the negative is to a photograph. Yet when we ask Muhammad's followers who did die on the cross we find "...those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow...

Ironically in that same 7th century, when Muhammad proclaimed the exact opposite of the Gospel of Jesus Christ within the muddled, heavily abrogated, 23 year record of his recitations, contradicted himself by recommending that Christians judge by what is revealed in the Gospel!

Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

There has only ever been one Gospel, whether in the  first century, the 7th century or today, and the subject of the Gospel has remained unchanged.

In order to deny the main subject of the Gospel as bequeathed to us through all of the witnesses of Jesus Christ - that were willing to be tortured and die martyrs deaths for proclaiming Christ crucified and the resurrection - Muhammad's followers are stuck having to make the preposterous claim that the 1st century Gospel had somehow been changed or "corrupted" to such an extent, that it's WHOLE SUBJECT had become the EXACT OPPOSITE, of Muhammad's 7th century denial.

In other words the Gospel would have had to have been rewritten in it's entirety, yet uniformly so throughout the whole known world, with all of the prior copies having vanished into thin air! But since we have over 5300 partial or complete manuscripts of the Gospel that were penned prior to 300 AD, to change it's whole subject would have required collaboration between scribes from Syria, Babylonia, Galatia, Asia, India, Rome, Egypt, Greece, Carthage, Tarshish and Macedonia, to name just a few!

So in light of the exact opposite nature of Muhammad's record to the Gospel, it should come as no surprise that the behavior of Muhammad and his follower's, was the exact opposite of the sinless Messiah and His Apostles.

From the Bukhari Hadith that Muslims respect more than any other we learn that, after Muhammad marched into the peaceful, productive, non-combatant Jewish farming village of the Banu Quraysa, ...

Bukhari:V5B59N448 They then surrendered to the Prophet's judgment but he directed them to Sa'd to give the verdict. Sad said, "I give my judgment that their men should be killed, their women and children should be taken as captives, and their properties distributed."

Thus all of the Jewish farm boys who had reached the age of puberty, along with their brothers, dads and grandpas were brought before Muhammad and beheaded - about eight hundred in all. But things went even worse for their sisters, mothers, wives and daughters.

Bukhari:V5B59N459 I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus."

As you attempt to visualize that scene, please bear in mind that Muhammad himself, had sex with a nine year old child. Yet in spite of how Muhammad's own behavior is exhaustively revealed through Islam's own books, YouTube continues to be full of Islamic buffoonery and lies regarding the Gospel, as if blaspheming the very book that Islam pretends to associate with, somehow defends Muhammad.

Lies regarding the Gospel like those of the famous Greek sophist styled Ahmed Deedat, and his self-described disciple Naik, eagerly parroted by their bible-ignorant adoring minions, like so many Chatty Kathy dolls that have the capability of pulling their own strings. Their followers seemingly believing that simply because somebody is willing to say something means that it will somehow magically become truth.

1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Yet even their own self-proclaimed prophet Muhammad, knew in his day, that he had made such a mess of his recitations that he had to institute a doctrine of abrogation.

Quran 2:106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

If Muhammad had been literate he might have known that abrogation IS substitution. A whopping 71 out of only 114 suras are subject to abrogation. But it gets worse.

The Yemeni government hired Gerd Puin, one of the world's leading authorities on Qur'anic historical orthography, or the study and scholarly interpretation of ancient manuscripts, to study the oldest manuscript of the Quran. Puin is also a specialist in Arabic paleography. Quoting the Wikipedia article, he found as indicated in this photo...

"Some of the papyrus on which the text appears shows clear signs of earlier use, being that previous, washed-off writings are also visible on it. In 2008 and 2009 Dr Elisabeth Puin published detailed results of the analysis of Sanaa manuscript DAM (dar al-makhtutat) 01.27-1 proving that the text was still in flux in the time span between the scriptio inferior and the scriptio superior of the palimpsest..."

Gerd Puin further concluded: "The Qur’an claims for itself that it is ‘mubeen,’ or clear, but if you look at it, you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn’t make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur’anic text is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur’an is not comprehensible, if it can’t even be understood in Arabic, then it’s not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid. Since the Qur’an claims repeatedly to be clear but is not—there is an obvious and serious contradiction. Something else must be going on."


Compare those washed off and written over manuscripts with Hebrew scribal methodology. Quoting Ellis Skolfield...

"To suggest there was tampering to the Old Testament documents prior to 300 B.C. shows a misunderstanding of Israelite scribal methodology and of their reverence for the Scriptures. First of all, biblical scrolls were written on the inside only to prevent any smudging or smearing that might lead to a misreading of the text. When being copied -- besides many parallel readings -- the copy was compared with the original in every way humanly possible.

The words in each column were counted and then the letters. The first, last, and middle letter and word in each column had to be identical to the original. If the number of words or the number of letters of the copy differed from the original, the copy was destroyed. Then they counted the words and letters in the whole document. They divided the document into quarters and into eighths. The first, last and middle letter in each section had to be the same. The number of words and the number of letters in each section had to be the same.  The middle word and the middle letter in each section had to be the same, and they had to be the same for the whole document. If not, the copy was destroyed. Not corrected, but destroyed!"

While we Christians should love our lost Muslim friends enough to help them overcome Muhammad, any so-called "church" that is so concerned about causing offense, that it obscures the whole subject of the Gospel in futile efforts to find common ground with Muhammad's stand-alone 7th century invention that proclaims the EXACT OPPOSITE, is only encouraging those poor folks to remain on their self-destructive path.

1Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Even as the ecumenical movement continues to grow perhaps right on schedule.

2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

a falling away
New Testament Greek Definition:
646 apostasia {ap-os-tas-ee'-ah}
feminine of the same as 647; TDNT - 1:513,88; n f
AV - to forsake + 575 1, falling away 1; 2
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

2Thessalonians 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

ONE MUST CHOOSE, between the 1600 year record of God to mankind as revealed through all of His prophets and witnesses, that His people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years, or the EXACT OPPOSITE through the stand-alone 23 year record of A SINGLE 7th century southwest Arabian desert dwelling illiterate, and his recycled Sabian and Quraish Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship rituals. Rituals that take place in the city of Mecca, which no historical or archaeological record suggests, ever existed before immigrants from Yemen settled the area in about the 4th century AD.

There can be no question that one of these directly opposing records comes straight out of the pit of hell.

THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND.

If Muhammad was a true prophet of the God of the bible, then all the other prophets were false.

So what inspires folks to desire to believe the scriptures were corrupted that they wish it was an excuse to run and hide from the Gospel?
It is "that spirit of antichrist" working in their hearts and minds.

1 John 2:22 ... He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father...

For discussion and a text version, please join us in the forum.
I recently made a fledgling attempt, at presenting some Gospel subjects in Arabic, with the help of an online Arabic language bible, and the Google translator. I would really appreciate some feedback by Arabic speaking folks on just how bad of a job I did of expressing the few words of my own. Blessedly, 99% of that section is copy and pasted scripture! The second link on the drop-down menu will take you there.

Please click on the annotation on the screen for the movie "The Gospel of John" that is spoken slowly, and is also subtitled, so it may even help some folks along with their English.

1John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.